Stephanie McCullough (00:06):

Welcome to Take Back Retirement, the show for women 50 and better, facing a financial future on their own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, and along with my fellow financial planner, Kevin Gaines, we’re going to tackle the myths and mysteries of “Retirement,” so you can make wise decisions toward a sustainable financial future. Through conversations and interviews, you’ll get the information and motivation you need, to move forward with confidence. And we’ll be sure to have some fun along the way. We’re so glad you’re here. Let’s dive in.

Stephanie McCullough (00:40):

Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial and American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (00:51):

Hello, Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (00:52):

So today we’re going to try something completely different. We thought it might be fun to dive a little bit into our backgrounds and our history doing what we do to give you guys a little snippet of that perspective. So we’re calling it true confessions of financial advisors. Stuff you were always dying to know, right?

Kevin Gaines (01:14):

Or at least pretending that you are interested.

Stephanie McCullough (01:17):

Yes. Yes. We appreciate your indulgence. So what I’m curious about Kevin, what was your first job?

Kevin Gaines (01:29):

First job that required me to leave the house, preteen, I did babysitting and paper route, I had those. But farm hand, which taught me an important lesson, primarily because this farm had chickens and chicken coops tend to acquire some waste, shall we say. And waste in confined settings and the heat of the summer, let’s just say, I felt very inspired to go to college thereafter.

Stephanie McCullough (02:04):

Good motivation.

Kevin Gaines (02:05):

We’ll go with that.

Stephanie McCullough (02:09):

So thinking back to that first job, Kevin, do you remember when you got your paychecks? What was that like? What did you do with your paychecks?

Kevin Gaines (02:16):

Well, my first official paycheck, I cried a little.

Stephanie McCullough (02:22):

Why is it that?

Kevin Gaines (02:22):

My dad laughed. My dad laughed a lot. And interestingly, as a quick aside, there’s actually a YouTube video of this happening to somebody else, because I learned about payroll taxes. And let’s just say it was not a fun lesson. It’s like, Hey, I earned this and now I got this. What the hell? And actually, if we could find that YouTube video, that would probably be fun to put in the show notes. So let’s see, we’re talking mid eighties. So what did I spend the money on? Baseball cards.

Stephanie McCullough (03:02):

The important stuff.

Kevin Gaines (03:03):

That’s what it was. I wasn’t driving yet. So it’s not like I had to put gas in the car. Yeah, baseball cards and the snack counter at school. All of a sudden I had a little bit more freedom and I didn’t have to worry about the healthy apple that mom would pack in my lunch. I could have my little cream filled oatmeal cookies. Lance. I still remember those things. God help me.

Kevin Gaines (03:30):

So turn the table, your first job?

Stephanie McCullough (03:33):

My first job, that was again, going out, getting paid, was the summer after my first year in college. I was a sailing instructor in Annapolis, at the Annapolis Sailing School. So I was kind of a scruffy kid with baggy shorts and stuff and we were teaching doctors and lawyers how to sail on boats. But we were making minimum wage. And interestingly, there is a waste aspect to my first job as well, because in addition to the classes where you’d go out in the boat for a couple hours and learn how to sail, they had what they called a cruise. So you would actually take a boat, students would take a boat and go overnight. And of course, if you’re all overnight on a boat, you need a toilet on the boat. We call that a head, in the marine world. And those heads, they would go into a little tank, which we lovely minimum wage workers got to empty, when people came back from cruise.

Stephanie McCullough (04:29):

And actually my second summer, somehow I got put in charge of “Cruise Prep”, we called it, preparing boats for cruise. So I had to make my peers, people I went out and partied with in the evenings, I had to make them empty the tanks. And they’re like, “Who the heck are you to be telling me to dump this shit into the tank?”

Kevin Gaines (04:50):

Literally.

Stephanie McCullough (04:50):

So I ended up doing a lot of it, of course, myself, because I wasn’t a very good task master.

Kevin Gaines (04:57):

So a quick aside, you’re Philly born and raised. How did you end up working Annapolis Marinas?

Stephanie McCullough (05:06):

Yeah, Annapolis Sailing School. So my family had a boat from the time I was two, a sailboat, and we would go down every weekend to the Chesapeake Bay and sail on the boat. And I went to sailing camp and all that stuff. So when I got to college and met one of my best friends, Amy, freshman year. She had taught at the Annapolis Sailing School the summer before because her sister lived there. And she said, “You want to teach with me this summer?” I was like, “Yeah.” So we lived with her sister and all of our friends had boats and we had a grand old time. Still the best job I ever had.

Kevin Gaines (05:36):

What did you think when you saw your first paycheck?

Stephanie McCullough (05:41):

I was a little appalled that we were getting paid so little. Of course, I thought my job was super hard and important, which now that I have a little bit more of a perspective, I had a little inflated sense of my own importance. But yeah, definitely kind of those monies getting taken out. I was like, “Wait, where is that going?” And then yeah, I had a borrowed family car for the summer, so I was putting gas in it. And, perhaps asking someone who was legal to buy some cheap beer and getting pizza. Our friend worked at Domino’s so sometimes we got free pizza, but most of the time we had pay for it.

Kevin Gaines (06:18):

All right. I won’t press any more questions out of fear of having to turn up admissions to violations of laws.

Stephanie McCullough (06:29):

All right. So, somehow Kevin, you evolved from farm hand to financial planner. What was your first job in the financial services industry?

Kevin Gaines (06:38):

Well, as listeners may remember from episodes, I think it was about three or four episodes ago, I actually have already answered this question. My first job in the industry was, the official title was Stock Broker, but it was with a boiler room operation, meaning the securities we were selling may have been of, let’s just say they were not the IBM and AT&T of the day, to use a couple companies that…

Stephanie McCullough (07:10):

Dubious quality, perhaps?

Kevin Gaines (07:15):

Some people could be of that opinion. Reference Wolf of Wall Street, Boiler Room, some excellent movies. A particular episode of the Sopranos actually even covers this.

Stephanie McCullough (07:28):

I remember that one.

Kevin Gaines (07:29):

Yes, so that was the first job. It was definitely eye-opening because I didn’t realize what I had gotten myself into until I got myself into it. And then all of a sudden I’m starting to figure things out and well, let’s just say I didn’t stay in biz too long.

Stephanie McCullough (07:50):

What did you think you were getting into?

Kevin Gaines (07:52):

I thought I was going to be a Stock Broker. Like legitimate Stock Broker. I thought I was going to get to pick stocks and make fabulous calls. The skeeviest I was going to be was maybe I would find a big whale that would invest with me. And he may ask me to help him uncover some additional information. Okay, yes, I watched Wall Street more than a few times in my life. Yes, I did just describe the Charlie Sheen role.

Kevin Gaines (08:22):

But yeah, that was my vision of what this was going to be. For having wanting to be in this career for a very long time, I wanted to be in finance and investing. I really had no idea what that meant until I actually started doing these things. I didn’t do the internships and stuff that, in hindsight I should have done, but I didn’t. So I came in cold. I found a place that said, “Hey, anybody could be a Stock Broker.” And that’s what I learned. And I also learned sales is very important in many parts of this industry. It’s not just how smart you are, which was again, an eye-opening revelation.

Stephanie McCullough (09:04):

Kind of that eat what you kill mentality.

Kevin Gaines (09:07):

Yeah, did not appreciate how prevalent that was, and still is in this industry. Yeah, sharp learning curve ahead, and I kind of went right over the guardrail. Anyway, so Stephanie, please tell me you started off a little bit more reputable than I did.

Stephanie McCullough (09:29):

I think so, because I actually started off with American Financial Management Group. I was a career changer. I was 30 years old, which is now 24 years ago. So I had been working in Washington, DC. My husband and I had jobs down there. We were thinking it might be nice to have kids someday. And if we have kids, it might be nice to be near those grandparents, who are dying for grandchildren, and therefore are going to help us a lot.

Stephanie McCullough (09:55):

So, that would bring us back to the Philadelphia area where we both grew up. And then he got a job offer. I’ll tell you, I grew up affirmatively not wanting to do what my father did. I did not want to be in the investments and insurance world. I did not want to be a financial advisor because the stuff he did, I don’t know, it didn’t have any interest to me. And then Bill got a job offer in Philadelphia, and I was like, “What the heck am I going to do in Philadelphia? I guess I could go work with dad.” And I’ll tell you, I had kind of come around a little bit to seeing the value of what he did.

Stephanie McCullough (10:33):

And so my father, Jeff White, had a lot of experience designing executive compensation programs. Which means like special programs that sit on top of a 401(k) to try to attract and recruit and retain key people, executives, C-suite type folks. Or doctors in a hospital or whatever. And he was always talking about that. And I had been working in the world of cellular communications, when they were building out the cellular systems. Like the cell phones we all take for granted now. They were brand new in the late nineties.

Stephanie McCullough (11:05):

And so the companies there were trying to keep their engineers who knew how to build those things. And the engineers kept getting poached from one company to the next. So I was like, that stuff Dad does, maybe I could pitch it to my telecom people, that I was working with at the time. And then I discovered that sales is actually not my forte. As soon as I was not working for the federal government, and I was actually trying to sell them something, the people I knew never called me back.

Stephanie McCullough (11:32):

So, that didn’t go so well. But happily, because Jeff had all these corporate clients and lots of retirement plans and other types of plans, I was able to be the education person doing the group meetings and one-on-one sit downs, explaining the program and talking to people, and I didn’t have to sell stuff. Thank goodness. Because I think I would’ve lasted maybe an hour and a half and then I would’ve run screaming from the industry.

Kevin Gaines (11:56):

Yes. And it’s ironic now we’re both financial advisors and we both don’t enjoy sales.

Stephanie McCullough (12:10):

Yeah. So how did things evolve for you there, Kevin? How did you start? Go from Boiler Room to Certified Financial Planner, with the approach that you take now with your clients, which is a very holistic look at all their money situation. Kind of the polar opposite, I believe, from where you started.

Kevin Gaines (12:29):

I don’t think there’s belief there. I think it’s actually documented fact that I’m about as polar opposite from how I started to where I am. I don’t think there’s too much debate on that. So actually after I got out of the boiler room, I went to work for a bank that was looking for licensed professionals because they wanted to ramp up their offerings to their existing clients. It’s like, Hey, people come to you because they want financial advice. I like it. And then disillusionment number two, I was still just a glorified salesman. Come in, try to get them to buy product du jour. But again, the products were at least of better quality because we’re talking mutual funds and annuities and CDs and stuff that people would actually need that would serve a purpose other than just generating a transactional commission for me.

Kevin Gaines (13:29):

But I did realize that education was sorely missing. People were buying these things because, well, everybody else says I should. And there was never really any in depth conversation of Why? What is this for? It was, are you risky or non risky? If you’re risky, we’ll put you in this one. If you’re non risky, then there’s this or this that you could go in into. But there really wasn’t a holistic view of how it fit in with everything else. It was still a transactional thing.

Kevin Gaines (14:05):

Then my wife got a job offer to move up into the Philadelphia area. Well, fiance at the time, and like, yeah sure, all right, let’s do it. And interviewed for a couple places. And the company that seemed to make the most sense and seemed to get me where I wanted to be was led by this insurance salesman and executive comp plan designer. Trying to remember his name, Jeff, somebody or another. And what can I say? The rest is history.

Kevin Gaines (14:46):

You and I met, we quickly figured out that we were of like minds as far as approaches and areas of emphasis. And even where we weren’t completely in agreement, we were complimentary. So prior to us doing all this, oh my gosh, it’s almost three years now, that we have been completely on our own, but we were talking about it, for what? A good 10 years before then.

Stephanie McCullough (15:15):

Yeah. So when did you join Jeff? How many years ago has it been?

Kevin Gaines (15:20):

Very beginning of 2001. So, turn of the century.

Stephanie McCullough (15:24):

20 years, that is crazy.

Kevin Gaines (15:27):

Yeah. And that’s the other depressing thing. I used to be able to say turn of the century as a joke and everybody would laugh. Ha ha ha. It was only two or three years ago. People don’t laugh anymore. Because it was 20, 21 years ago. It’s all of a sudden, it is the turn of the century, for reference. Anyway, so there’s the glorified history of how we got the practitioners together, shall we say? So that’s how I got where I am, but Stephanie, where did Sofia come from?

Stephanie McCullough (16:05):

So I’d been working with Jeff for quite a while. I was the lead person on this local hospital. As you remember, we did some executive compensation there. But also we ended up doing the main retirement plan, the 403(b). So I was up there all the time, talking to people on all different shifts. I’d go in the middle of the night. I’d go early in the morning, I’d meet with the CEO and I’d meet with the people who cleaned the rooms. So I really got a lot of conversations with people around money, finances, investing. And as you might realize, the majority of employees at a hospital are women. Not necessarily in the C-suite and back then, not necessarily the doctors either, but everybody else was majority women. So I had lots of conversations with women who had either outsourced the overseeing of the investments to a man in their life. And that may have gone well or it may have not. Sometimes it was a spouse. Sometimes it was a brother or a brother-in-law or a father, or all over the place.

Stephanie McCullough (17:06):

I talked to women who had been, let’s say poorly served by the financial services industry. Sold some kind of high priced, high commission…

Kevin Gaines (17:15):

No.

Stephanie McCullough (17:15):

Yeah, can you believe it? High priced, high commission product that they couldn’t get out of, and then never talked to them again. And they were left feeling confused and taken advantage of which, was not fun. And then the women who kind of had put their heads in the sand and just felt like, “Ugh, this is kind of an intimidating area, I’ll think about it next month. I’ll think about it next year.” And I’ll never forget, I met with a woman on the housekeeping staff. She was 60, maybe 62. She’d worked at the hospital like her whole career, 30 plus years. She had never signed up for the 403(b), for the retirement plan. And she finally got up the guts to schedule a meeting with me and sit down one-on-one. And I walked her through it and explained it and asked her questions and we got her signed up. And at the end she gave me the biggest hug. She was like, “I was so scared to do this. Thank you for making it understandable and easy to do.” And I was like, “Oh my goodness.”

Stephanie McCullough (18:08):

Something as relatively straightforward, as signing up for a retirement plan had felt so intimidating to her. So I had had this idea in my mind for a long time that there’s got to be a way to have a different money conversation with women that speaks to what’s meaningful to them. There’s a lot of research too, showing that women have very high distrust of the financial services industry. And they just kind of don’t connect with the stuff that the industry talks about. So I’d been thinking about that. And then the hospital fired us one day.

Kevin Gaines (18:36):

Ah, I remember that day.

Stephanie McCullough (18:39):

The middle of an annual review meeting, like 45 minutes into this meeting. And I’m explaining how well it’s going and how many people have signed up. And they let us know that they were going to be doing a request for proposals. And I said, “Oh well, can we participate?” No, we’re going to go to Vanguard and Fidelity. We don’t need a local advisor. It’s like, “I spent my whole week up here. What do you mean, you don’t need a local… ?” But, fine. Okay. So now I had the time to do this thing I’ve been thinking about.

Stephanie McCullough (19:03):

So our original title was The Women’s Financial Resource Group, which sounded so masculine. And kind of stodgy. So I was having a meeting with a branding consultant, and in a panic I emailed a few of my friends. I’m like, I need a name. I need a name that feels kind of feminine, a little bit more approachable. And two people suggested Sofia. One is my friend who’s half Greek. Thank you, Denise. She said, it means wisdom in Greek. I was like, “Ooh, I like that.” And my friend Katie who teaches medieval history, she suggested it totally independently saying it was the ancient incarnation of feminine wisdom. I was like, “Oh yep, there we go.” And then I did the trademark search and ta-dah, off to the races. 10 years ago, Sofia Financial was born.

Kevin Gaines (19:48):

And naturally, I get that story confused and just tell everybody Sofia is the feminine version of the Greek word for wisdom. Which is not entirely correct, either direction. But eh, it makes a good story. And as my wife has always heard me say from day one, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Stephanie McCullough (20:14):

There you go. So Kevin, tell me, what do you like best about this job, about this profession that we both do?

Kevin Gaines (20:22):

Wow, that’s tough. And this is going to sound like a cliche stock type answer because there’s lots of the aspects of this job that I enjoy. Probably the education, talking with clients, talking with prospects and learning about their situation, where they want to go and then working with them to figure out the best path and the best tools to use. And, it’s not all altruistic, it’s a little ego as well because I do get to show off how smart I am at times, or at least think I am at times. So yeah, it’s not a completely canned answer, there is a little malevolence there. I’m not sure if that’s the word. But yeah, I really do enjoy, because similar to your experience with the workers at the hospital, we lose sight of what we think is a very simple, straightforward decision process and conversations to have. We forget how intimidating this can be for people at times, or how much they dread it. And getting to have conversations with people about this stuff and removing the mystery, not only is it rewarding, but it’s stuff I like.

Kevin Gaines (21:56):

And I also like getting to pick the people I work with. I’m not the most stodgiest of people and there’s going to be people out there that expect their financial professionals to be in the big oak-paneled office. And to always be wearing a three piece suit, and all these things.

Stephanie McCullough (22:21):

Be super serious.

Kevin Gaines (22:21):

And that’s not me.

Stephanie McCullough (22:22):

Not cracking jokes.

Kevin Gaines (22:24):

Yeah. I mean, what we do is serious, but that doesn’t mean we have to be this intimidating voice from up on high, making pronouncements of what need to be done. And I’m way too laid back to pull that off. But then finding people, one of the things I did going back to the boiler room, the biggest thing I took away from that, I still remember my manager explaining this to me, was it’s a numbers game and it’s a personality game.

Kevin Gaines (22:58):

There are plenty of people that are not going to work with you, or they’re going to work with you for no other reason than your personality. So don’t be embarrassed or intimidated by who you are, just be yourself. You will find people that want to work with you and can relate with you because of that personality. Hey, like we say, a lot of people get intimidated by this stuff. So I’m maybe, I like to think a little bit different than most. And there was a certain segment of people that like that. So yeah, I get to be myself. That’s what I like most about this industry. I’ll put a pin in this question on my side and say, that’s my answer. I get to be myself. I get to be who I am. If you like it, great. If you don’t, I’m sorry.

Stephanie McCullough (23:55):

And I would say being your true self is why I give you that title, Chief Investment Geek.

Kevin Gaines (24:02):

Hey, I like it. Stephanie, what do you love?

Stephanie McCullough (24:07):

Early on, when I was wondering if I was actually cut out for this work, I actually worked with a coach, nobody had ever heard of an executive coach back in the late nineties. But I found an executive coach who helped me a lot. And one of the things I did was write a big, long list of the things I really like about this work. And similar to you, one of the biggest ones is working with individuals. And to me it’s seeing that kind of that stress leave them and be like, “Oh, all right, this is doable, we can get there, we’re making a plan, we’re working the plan.” Taking something that had felt super intimidating and yet it was there on the to-do list. And it was really bothering them that they hadn’t tackled it yet. Once we tackle it and then they can put their energy and momentum towards the things that really excite them in life. If I can take that off their plate, then I feel like my clients are going out and making the world a better place.

Stephanie McCullough (25:01):

So I do feel like there is a factor of improving the world in the work that we do. If we can take the financial stress off people and then they can go off and do their things. That’s exciting. But I also love that there’s constantly new stuff to learn. I feel like I’m a lifelong learner. I love going to a conference or going to a webinar and learning something new and then finding a way to implement that with clients or to bring it into the ways we communicate with people or whatever it might be. So I think that part’s really fun too.

Kevin Gaines (25:34):

So would you say this podcast is an extension of what you love about this job?

Stephanie McCullough (25:44):

Yeah, I think so. If my mission is to empower all women to, or my vision is a world where all women are empowered to make wise financial decisions, then the more we can spread the word and the more people we can impact, the better. Absolutely.

Stephanie McCullough (25:58):

All right, so something new we were thinking about trying with guests, but we thought you should try it with ourselves first, is have a little rapid fire segment. So I’ve got just a few questions and we’re looking for just quick answers. You ready, Kevin?

Kevin Gaines (26:10):

Yes. I think.

Stephanie McCullough (26:15):

Pause. What is your favorite movie?

Kevin Gaines (26:20):

Tough question. There’s a lot of them out there. But it’s a financial podcast, so let’s go with Trading Places or Apollo 13, which many people don’t realize is actually a very strong argument for planning. Seeing how they adapt and overcome with everything that they had to go through. It shows the benefit of continuous ongoing planning, not just having one plan and then if something goes wrong, it all falls apart. Which is why I don’t like Titanic. But anyway, Stephanie, what about you? What cinematic feature do you enjoy?

Stephanie McCullough (27:07):

My favorite movie all time is The Princess Bride. And it was because our English teacher at Radnor Middle School, Mr. Crawford, read The Princess Bride to us, in middle school. And it was so darn funny. So when the movie first came out, I was beyond excited because I already knew the story and the book is very much like the movie. It’s kind of a story within a story. The grandfather’s reading the grandson a little book throughout. I just think it’s darn funny. Of course watching it now I realize it’s pretty sexist. And yet, there’s just so many great lines. Inconceivable. It’s just fabulous.

Kevin Gaines (27:44):

And once again, it’s an important lesson about salesmanship because life is pain. Anybody who tells you different is selling something.

Stephanie McCullough (27:56):

That’s right, highness. All right, Kevin, what’s your favorite concert you’ve ever been to?

Kevin Gaines (28:04):

Wow. Probably the most entertaining concert I ever went to, the most engaging concert I ever went to, was Prince. It was just a fabulous show. And I was a freshman at Kentucky and he’d come to Lexington. And somebody we knew, one of the parts of our group, stood in line and she just happened to get, it was a lottery. The tickets were distributed in lottery. She got the very first pick, so the most she could get was eight tickets. So she got eight front row center tickets.

Kevin Gaines (28:41):

So yeah, that was probably the most entertaining, I mean the man put on a fabulous show. But the one that sticks into my memory the most was probably going to see Conway Twitty, George Jones and Vern Gosdin with my dad. He and I both liked that old traditional country and it was just something I got to do with my dad and he’s not here anymore. So I think that kind of resonates a little bit more as I age, gracefully, may I add.

Stephanie McCullough (29:25):

Very nice.

Kevin Gaines (29:26):

And you?

Stephanie McCullough (29:28):

My favorite concert was, so I have seen The Grateful Dead with Jerry Garcia, quite a few times. And the best show I ever saw was actually in Paris, because I actually happened to be going to school in Italy at the time. And one of my classmates was like, “Hey, who wants to go to The Dead Show in Paris?” I’m like, “Me, obviously, duh.” So it was an amazing show. It was a small venue. It was 99% Americans and a couple French people, all dressed in black, standing there not moving.

Stephanie McCullough (29:56):

Of course, we’re all swaying and dancing and they’re just standing there. But the best part and what really stood out was that Bruce Hornsby was on piano. And having been forced to take piano lessons for many years of my life, I love the piano and he was amazing. It was a really, really fabulous show. All right, next up. What do you spend money on that other people think is crazy. Or put another way, what’s your biggest indulgence?

Kevin Gaines (30:20):

I’m trying to think of any other answer, but no, I’m going to have to give the financially incorrect answer, gambling. What can I say? I enjoy casinos. And, it’s the old line, gambling is a tax on people bad at math. But, I enjoy going to the casinos and I mean, I know it’s a losing proposition, most likely. Except you get those rare moments when, hey, which is what suckers you right back in. But yeah, it’s not golf, there’s plenty of other people that sympathize with my spending there. But gambling, there’s probably less people that are sympathetic to my particular point of view. Now you, where do you waste, quote unquote waste money?

Stephanie McCullough (31:17):

Well, I have a weakness for books and bookstores, and I tend to like, there’s this great conference, pre COVID, the Pennsylvania Conference For Women. And it’s a get together with 12,000 of your best friends and hear amazing people speak. And every year I’m like, “I’m not buying any books. I’m not buying any books. I’m not buying more books.” And they have a bookstore there of course, and they have the authors there to sign and you hear these authors speak and you’re like, “Oh I have to buy that book.” I have so many books. I have many, many books. [Every year I say, “I’m not buying more books.” And then I buy more books.]

Stephanie McCullough (31:45):

And then I have to say I was comforted because there’s actually a Japanese word for buying books that you never actually quite get around into reading. Because I said, I buy books. I don’t necessarily always read them. It’s apparently called Tsundoku, T-S-U-N-D-O-K-U. And I’ve actually heard that it’s not an unhealthy thing, to have more books around you than you could ever possibly read. So I’m taking comfort in that.

Kevin Gaines (32:09):

Whatever gets you through the day.

Stephanie McCullough (32:13):

So what do other people spend money on that you think is crazy?

Kevin Gaines (32:19):

Books they’ll never read. No, seriously though, that’s an interesting question. Sales. Something is on sale, I got to buy it. And, is it something you were going to buy anyway? Well, no, but it’s on sale. Not that we have this conversation in my house. Absolutely, I would never say that on a public broadcast, but let’s just say I’ve had the conversation a few times with people. Yeah, that’s one of the things, although we all fall for it from time to time. But yeah, that’s always the thing that gets me. Hey, I saved 50% and it’s like, you could have saved a hundred percent had you not bought the damn thing. But, it is what it is. So yeah, that’s probably the wacky thing that, I rightly are wrongly, tend to raise an eyebrow at. And where do you get judgmental?

Stephanie McCullough (33:35):

The thing that I don’t understand that people spend, they sink a ton of money into, is lawns. Front lawn, back lawn, green grass. I mean the trucks that go around the neighborhoods with crazy names like Chem Lawn, I mean really. Just the time and effort, the equipment people use, the various stuff people spread on this green plant, because they’re dying to have more of that green plant, just looking perfect, and just so. And only so tall and I don’t get it. I don’t understand. Lawn does not have value to me personally. So, that’s something that just doesn’t, I don’t get it.

Kevin Gaines (34:26):

Now, let me remind everybody, I just said buying something 50% off because you don’t need it is ridiculous and silly. Yes, more than a few times I’ve gone to Home Depot. And yes, the outdoor section of Home Depot. And, hey look, what’s 50% off! And yes, I come home with a bunch of different plants, fertilizers, seed, whatever was on sale. It was on sale. Let me try it because anything to make my lawn look better. I am open to that conversation.

Stephanie McCullough (35:03):

Does the fertilizer get spread? Do the plants get planted or do they sit there in the garage and wilt?

Kevin Gaines (35:09):

Oh Nope. Nope, absolutely gets done. Absolutely. Yes. That’s the, quote unquote, beautiful lawn is my aspirational domestic objective. Don’t necessarily want to do a lot of stuff inside the house but that outside, there’s just something about looking out on the backyard before the dogs destroy it. Which, that kind of comes with it. Which is the other reason I spend so much time and money on the lawn, is two massive dogs on a third of an acre. Math does not work out very well there either. So yes. But yes, I do enjoy it when it’s freshly mowed and it’s that lush green. I’m not going to lie, it’s a beautiful sight.

Stephanie McCullough (36:02):

All right. One quick, last question before we wrap up, what is something that you’ve spent way too much money on? Like a single purchase that just went wrong and you ended up spending? Because I feel like sometimes people think, “Oh, you’re a financial planner. You’ve never made any money, mistakes.” Well, of course that’s not true. We are human beings. So tell us something stupid you’ve done with money.

Kevin Gaines (36:29):

All right. All right. All right. 401(k) loan that I didn’t pay back. And it wasn’t the first job, like, “Hey, I can tap this money and do something stupid with it.” No, no, no, no. I did this late twenties, early thirties. I should have even known better by then, but took the loan. I don’t even remember what I spent the money on or different things I spent the money on. But took the money and then moved up here and it’s like, “Hey, I don’t have to pay it back. Yeah, fine. I’ll pay the tax man a couple bucks. I’ll get over it.”

Kevin Gaines (37:09):

And given what the market has done since then, financial position might be a little bit different, had I not recklessly squandered that money. But again, it’s hard to be judgey in this. Although there are plenty of people in this business that are judgey. I’m not one of them because like I tell many clients, if you’ve done something stupid with your money, I’ve probably done it myself, or at least thought about it. So what do you get a dunce cap for?

Stephanie McCullough (37:47):

Mine’s a little bit more, kind of prosaic than that, but like it really still wrangles me. We visited this shop, I think I was with some friends or family members or something. We were on vacation and there was this cool shop. There was this woman who like crafted new clothes. She would take old pieces of clothing and add stuff to it. And she had these jeans that were really cool and she kind of put like a Stripe down the side that was from another piece of material. And then she put patches on it. They were really neat, and she was there. So we’re talking to her, we’re learning all about her process and her creative process. And I try on the pair of jeans. Now I have not looked at the price tag yet, but I’m totally taken in by the story.

Stephanie McCullough (38:28):

And it’s like, “Oh, these fit, I think they’re really fun. I would like these.” I bring them up to the counter and she tells me the price and I nearly fall over dead. I can’t believe, I’ve never spent this much on a pair of jeans. This was a few years ago, I think it was like $125. But back then, like I only ever bought $39 jeans from The Gap. Like this was crazy to me. And I was too embarrassed to admit that I didn’t want to spend that much or that I couldn’t afford to spend $125 on a pair of jeans because I just talked to her for like half an hour. So I bought the stupid jeans and don’t really wear them very often. And they still sit in my drawer as a reminder that when your emotions get caught up in it, it’s easy to spend more than you intended.

Kevin Gaines (39:15):

Oh no, we’ve all pulled that one. Or you even feel guilty that you don’t buy something after talking to, some sort of craftsmen or salesmen. And they spend all the time talking with you, educating you, whatever. And then you feel this compulsion that, well, I got to get something. I’ve again, we’ve all pulled that one. Sadly, it’s not unique. I’m sure you’re like, oh no.

Stephanie McCullough (39:48):

Yeah. For some reason that one just really stands out because they say like one of the ways that things get embedded in your memory is to have high emotion around it. And I just felt this rush of like panic, embarrassment, shame, like so many emotions were coursing through me, and I handed over my credit card. So yeah, it was interesting.

Stephanie McCullough (40:08):

All right, everyone, we hope you have enjoyed this episode of True Confessions of Financial Planners. We’d be very curious to hear your own stories. Your favorite money mistakes. Your first experience with getting a paycheck. We would love to hear from you. Please share with us on social media. And in the meantime, have a lovely couple of weeks. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.

Kevin Gaines (40:35):

And it’s goodbye from her.

Stephanie McCullough (40:40):

Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends. Show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only, Raymond Loewy through New Math in New York. See you next time.

Disclaimer (40:55):

Investment advice offered through private advisor group, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Private advisor group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material, are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice, or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor, prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.