Stephanie McCullough (00:00):

So many of our listeners are either out on their own in the world or imagining some type of reinvention or “retirement” that might involve setting up shop on their own. And one of the big difficulties that we see with entrepreneurs is pricing your services, pricing what you’re going to put out there in the world.

Stephanie McCullough (00:24):

And that’s where Ella’s formula that she’s going to share with us, I think can be really helpful.

[Music Playing]

Stephanie McCullough (00:30):

Hey, dear listeners, we need to let you know that Kevin and Stephanie offer investment advice through Private Advisor Group, which is a federally registered investment advisor. The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations to any individual.

Stephanie McCullough (00:55):

To determine which strategies or investments may be suitable for you, consult the appropriate qualified professional prior to making a decision. Now, let’s get on with the show.

Stephanie McCullough (01:11):

This is Take Back Retirement, the show that’s redefining retirement for women. Retirement is an old-fashioned cultural concept. We want to reclaim the word so you can make it your own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, financial planner and founder of Sofia Financial, where our mission is to reduce women’s money stress and empower them to make wise holistic decisions so they can get back to living their best lives.

Stephanie McCullough (01:34):

Kevin Gaines is my longtime colleague with deep knowledge in the technical stuff: investments, taxes, retirement plan rules. He’s a little bit nerdy and quantitative, I’m a little bit touchy-feely and qualitative. Together, through conversations and interviews, we aim to give you the information and motivation you need to move forward with confidence. We’re so glad you’re here.

Stephanie McCullough (01:59):

Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial and American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (02:11):

Hello, Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (02:12):

Today, our guest is Ella Glasgow. She is quite an amazing woman as you will see. I met her a few months ago, and we immediately bonded over a shared interest in helping people get their money straight.

Stephanie McCullough (02:28):

Even though that’s not Ella’s main profession and focus, she does talk with people about it. And I love the system that she’s put together for walking people through it.

Stephanie McCullough (02:41):

So many of our listeners are either out on their own in the world or imagining some type of reinvention or “retirement” that might involve setting up shop on their own. And one of the big difficulties that we see with entrepreneurs is pricing your services, pricing what you’re going to put out there in the world.

Stephanie McCullough (03:04):

And that’s where Ella’s formula that she’s going to share with us, I think can be really helpful.

Stephanie McCullough (03:09):

Ella Glasgow is an award-winning vocalist, a two-time bestselling author, and the visionary consultant behind Unforgettable Virtual Events. She’s the founder and executive producer at Beyond Virtual Events, and her expertise lies in crafting transformational experiences that captivate audiences and elevate brands. Let’s hear from Ella Glasgow.

Stephanie McCullough (03:36):

Ella Glasgow, welcome to Take Back Retirement.

Ella Glasgow (03:39):

Thank you so much for having me. I’m very excited.

Stephanie McCullough (03:43):

Me too. So, tell everyone what you’re doing now and then a little bit of your background and how you came to be doing it.

Ella Glasgow (03:52):

So, I am currently a virtual event producer for established small businesses that are needing help with their virtual events on the tech side and the engaging side. And I keep hearing from everyone that their events are just not engaging. For them, not being engaging that means that they’re really losing money.

Ella Glasgow (04:14):

And the other aspect of that that I talk with my clients about is the fact that they are not using their events to their full extent. They are thinking from it is this one-time thing that happens, even if it’s something that happens quarterly. And the extent of what they do with it is we’ll send the people the replay, not realizing that there are marketing gems inside their event when it’s produced correctly.

Ella Glasgow (04:43):

So, I am helping them with that so that their event can work hard for them instead of them working hard for the event, Lord Jesus.

Stephanie McCullough (04:50):

Very nice. You bring such a unique set of skills and background to this work. Tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are now.

Ella Glasgow (05:00):

So, my background is that I was a professional entertainer, and I did that consistently for over 20 years. And I still do some professional work. I’m working with an event later this year doing a Cirque theme. I’m really excited about it because I was with Cirque for a time.

Stephanie McCullough (05:22):

Ooh, I didn’t know that.

Ella Glasgow (05:26):

So, yeah, that is fun. But that’s my background, is that I have been a professional entertainer for over 20 years. And specifically, the piece that I really utilize in the business now being an event producer, is the time that I spent with Disney, the mouse who shall not be named.

Kevin Gaines (05:54):

Now in public domain.

Ella Glasgow (05:55):

I know, I can say with Mickey. Okay, I’ll say with Mickey. That will be clear for us to say that so that we don’t get in trouble. And when I say that I know that sometimes that can mean different things to people because there are so many ways that you can be with the mouse. When I say I was with the mouse, I mean, I was paid, I was not an intern. I was on the stages actually performing shows.

Ella Glasgow (06:19):

So, which means that I got a very different type of training than those that come into some of their conferences that they have, and I teach in the Disney way. I went through traditions. I have been ingrained. It is part of my DNA. So, I bring that perspective to the event space because the way that that particular company puts things together is very different than everyone else.

Stephanie McCullough (06:52):

It’s fascinating that you bring this perspective, and what you and I really bonded over and what I want to talk about today for our listeners’ benefit is the work you’ve done in the past with creatives and helping them figure out the financial side of being a business person in a creative space which I think applies beyond just creative space.

Ella Glasgow (07:18):

It really does. It’s something that after you and I had that conversation, I went back to listen to some of the things that I’d said. I’m still not necessarily hearing some of the things that I said in the past out in the creative space, and I’m not as deep in that creative space as I used to be. So, maybe they’re saying it and I’m just not hearing it.

Ella Glasgow (07:36):

But I can tell you that when I was coming up and I’m still seeing it from other people, there’s still questions about money. And the thing that I have found that when it comes to someone that’s wanting to go out on their own, whatever out on their own may be, maybe it’s not to be a singer, maybe it’s not to be an artist. Maybe it’s just to go away from whatever corporate thing that they have and create a new process.

Ella Glasgow (08:11):

Maybe they want to be a consultant for something, but they want to do it away from the corporate environment that they’re in right now. But when they look at it, they don’t understand how they’re going to make that happen because financially, it looks crazy. Because they’re making maybe not enough money in their mind to do what it is that they think they need to do.

Ella Glasgow (08:40):

So, when I was working with creatives, I realized this because I realized it for myself first. I recognized that I needed to get some business mindset. And the reason that that even was sparked in my brain was a conversation that I had with an old roommate not long after I graduated, which was, Lord, I just saw it on Facebook. Facebook let me know, Lord Jesus.

Kevin Gaines (09:09):

Facebook’s really good about reminding you exactly how old we really are.

Stephanie McCullough (09:17):

I’m going to my 35th reunion from college in April, so I’m probably older than you.

Ella Glasgow (09:21):

So, 27 years ago, I graduated from high school, 21 years ago, I graduated from college, Lord Jesus. All of us together sitting in the Zoom right now, if you … off subject, remember when 1900s used to mean 1920, 1930, it’s all the 1900s. You were born in the 1900s, we are far enough away for us all to have been born in the 1900s.

Stephanie McCullough (09:46):

It’s wild. Born and graduated in the 1900s.

Kevin Gaines (09:50):

Well, 20 some years ago, I always like to use the joke, “Oh, back last century.” And when it was 2002, 2003, okay, yeah, that’s kind of funny. It’s not funny anymore, people just assume I’m just making a reference.

Ella Glasgow (10:09):

Yep, but the thing is that what not changed is the understanding of how money works for starting that new venture in your life. And what I told you was the spark for me understanding that I needed to just have a more business mindset.

Ella Glasgow (10:27):

I’d just graduated from college and was on my first big fat contract, and that was with Disney Cruise Line. And my roommate at the time, my old college roommate, she was still in college. She was going to be a part of the largest showcase that happens at our college. I went to Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee.

Ella Glasgow (10:49):

And that university is on Music Row. The biggest event that happens, or at least — I don’t know if it’s the same, but back then, 21 years ago. Back then the biggest event happened for the College of Music Business and that event was the music showcase. And all of Music Row would come, like all the execs and everything would come. And there’d be only a handful of people that were in that showcase.

Ella Glasgow (11:13):

My roommate happened to be in the showcase, and she said, “Ella, they told me to change my major.” This is in the process before the showcase actually happened. And I was like, “Why? To what?” Now, she and I were both commercial voice majors. I graduated a commercial voice major from Belmont University.

Ella Glasgow (11:33):

She said, “They told me to change it to music business.” And I was like, “Why?” And she said, “Think of the people that graduated from our college that are well-known that we know.” Before I say that, know that we have music business classes that were required. You know how we creatives are, I don’t want to think about this. I need to be singing my songs.

Ella Glasgow (12:03):

Yeah, I’m taking this class because I got to graduate.

Stephanie McCullough (12:07):

Check the box.

Ella Glasgow (12:09):

Right. So, music business and they were basic, basic music business. So, I said, “Okay.” She said Josh Turner, Trisha Yearwood, some others who … Brad Paisley.

Ella Glasgow (12:24):

And I said, “Well, Josh was in school, he was in class with us. What you talking about? He was in my apartment. We played pool. What you mean? He did music business? I don’t remember that. We were in the same classes singing together.”

Ella Glasgow (12:39):

And she was like, “Music business.” And I said, “Nobody told me that while I was there.” I’m happy that I graduated from there because it was very useful for me, even though only a handful of people cared that I graduated from Belmont. So, but that was the beginning, that was 2003.

Stephanie McCullough (13:08):

So, that planted the seed in your mind.

Ella Glasgow (13:10):

Planted the seed. I was like, “Okay, I need to start thinking about these things. I need to start thinking about business.” But it wasn’t until years later that I finally really, really got it and understood.

Ella Glasgow (13:18):

So, that was the start of it. And when it came to the money piece of it, I recognized that there were some pieces. They would give you a little piece, but they’re not giving you the whole piece. At least that I could see in the little bit of classes that I took from college.

Ella Glasgow (13:36):

And when I figured that out, I was like, “Wait a minute,” this is the time I got into the coaching space as well. Fast forward many, many, many, many years. Got into the coaching space and ingesting all of the things that the coaches were telling me that I needed to do, how much I should charge all of this stuff.

Ella Glasgow (13:55):

And energetically inside of me, it didn’t make any sense. And it doesn’t make any sense for a whole lot of people and there’s a reason why. And it has to do with the fact that people are not understanding what success means for them.

Stephanie McCullough (14:08):

Say more about that.

Ella Glasgow (14:11):

So, when it comes to success, we are plastered with the idea, then how are you going to get to where you want to be? We don’t even have a … I need a push point, but if I don’t know where I am, I can’t push from air, it’s impossible.

Stephanie McCullough (14:26):

Ooh, I like that. That’s a good image.

Kevin Gaines (14:28):

Stephanie does that sound familiar at all in conversations with clients as we’re first starting to have these conversations, we got to know where we are.

Stephanie McCullough (14:38):

You got to look at stuff. So, what did that mean in your coaching work with clients around money?

Ella Glasgow (14:47):

So, I first asked the question, “I want to know off the top of your head real quick, throw it out: what is the number to make you feel successful? You and no one else. That’s what I want to know.” And once we can know what the number is to make them feel successful, and I’m very adamant about the feel, it’s kind of a trick question.

Ella Glasgow (15:17):

Because for Jennifer over here, maybe 200,000 is what makes her feel successful. But for Joe over here, for him to feel successful, 50,000, and that has to be what feels for you. It’s not the same for everybody. Then from there, once we know that, then we can start looking through the rest of the numbers and put the equation together because we have to find out where the gap is for you.

Ella Glasgow (15:52):

Because until you put these numbers together, and if you would like, I will quickly go through how to get those numbers. But until you put those numbers together, you’re not going to know where you actually stand. And it will always feel too much.

Stephanie McCullough (16:06):

That’s why I was so intrigued by the approach you take when you talk about the equation and plugging different things into it, that in addition to the feeling, it has to be both parts of it. Do you agree?

Ella Glasgow (16:17):

It does have to be both parts of it. Because if you don’t feel comfortable with the number, if you are just taking on something because — now, that’s not to say that it’s not going to be scary, it still might be a scary number. There’s nothing wrong with fear.

Ella Glasgow (16:38):

I heard Katt Williams say last night in a three-hour interview, somebody asked him about being afraid. Like, “Were you afraid to go out on your own?” Which I think he like left his home at 13-years-old or whatever: “Were you afraid?” And he said, “Oh, I never said that I wasn’t afraid, but I never let fear stop me.”

Ella Glasgow (17:01):

So, there’s nothing wrong with being afraid, that’s not the feeling that I’m talking about. It’s the feeling like there’s something wrong in your spirit. And you have to be able to understand and distinguish between the fear of just fear itself and the fear being, “Oh, because I don’t know what this does to the rest of my life if this particular thing happens,” or fear of if I do this, that this completely moves me away from where I’m trying to go. Those are two different fears.

Stephanie McCullough (17:36):

And sometimes it’s fear in the sense of stepping onto a bigger stage, doing something you haven’t done before. A stretch, a challenge, that can feel like fear too. But it’s not the same of fear of being evicted from your home, there’s something different.

Ella Glasgow (17:50):

Exactly. Exactly. So, you have to be able to distinguish that for yourself because if it doesn’t hold true for you, then all the rest is moot. That’s where we start. We need to start there first.

Ella Glasgow (18:03):

Then the equation — I’ll go through it really quickly. You are first going to find, you’re going to get your — let me get this right. So, first, I want to know how much you need to feel successful, you’re going to write that number down. Then I want to know your total debt.

Ella Glasgow (18:23):

Which means that obviously if you’re listening to this right now in the podcast, you’re going to need to pause. Maybe you know your total debt. And if you do, kudos to you. But write down that total debt (excluding your house). If you’re someone that has a mortgage, then excluding your house. If you’re someone that pays rent, excluding the house because that’s not your total debt that I’m counting.

Ella Glasgow (18:44):

Then you’re going to write down your total monthly living expenses. Now, this is your rent, your mortgage. And I know some of this stuff I can see … I know some of this stuff like, “Yeah, yeah, I get this, I get this.” These are the things we know sometimes.

Ella Glasgow (19:03):

Then you’re going to write down your miscellaneous expenses like hanging out, gas. Because as much as I would love my gas to be the same every month, you know it’s not, Lord Jesus. Groceries, if you’re one of those that knows that you only spend $300 a month on groceries, let me know how you’re doing it because-

Stephanie McCullough (19:21):

So, you’re distinguishing the monthly living expenses from the things that are more variable.

Ella Glasgow (19:26):

Exactly. Exactly.

Stephanie McCullough (19:28):

A little bit more in your control maybe.

Ella Glasgow (19:30):

Exactly. So, those miscellaneous expenses, and then this piece, what I like to call, what’s your total fun cost?

Stephanie McCullough (19:40):

Say more about that.

Ella Glasgow (19:42):

So, things that you really want to do this year, like maybe you want to take a trip out of the country, or maybe you want to go to Disney World (we’re going to go next year). If you want to go to Disney World, whatever those big things. What’s the total fun thing that you want to do this year? Maybe you want to buy a new MacBook. What are the total of all of those things that you want to do this year?

Ella Glasgow (20:07):

Once you have those numbers and make sure that you’ve labeled each of them — once you have those numbers, you’re going to go back, and you are going to take your total monthly living expenses plus your miscellaneous expenses, and you’ll have a big number. What’s the total? That’s the total for the month. Then you’re going to multiply that by 12. And this is all familiar, right?

Kevin Gaines (20:36):

Yes.

Ella Glasgow (20:37):

Then you’re going to take your 12-month total, plus your total debt, plus your total fund cost and get a number.

Stephanie McCullough (20:49):

And to be clear, are we talking about the debt payments or amount outstanding?

Ella Glasgow (20:54):

The amount outstanding. So, your total debt, you’ve already done that. This is not the monthly, this is outstanding. The total debt, the 12 months, and the total fun cost. Now, that number, your total yearly, monthly living expenses, all that stuff, plus a total debt, plus a total fun cost, that number is your actual real success number.

Stephanie McCullough (21:21):

Yeah.

Ella Glasgow (21:23):

That’s the success number. This is the number that we should be striving for. Now, I want you to take your total yearly income before taxes. What’s your total yearly income before taxes? You are going to put that number down and you’re going to subtract your — you’re going to take your yearly income and you’re going to subtract that from your real success number.

Stephanie McCullough (21:52):

So, the income you’re currently making, right?

Ella Glasgow (21:55):

Right. Income you’re currently making, and this is where the magic happens. Once you subtract your current yearly income from your real success number, there’s going to be a gap, negative or positive. If it is negative, congratulations, you make more than you need. If it’s positive, now you finally know where you stand.

Ella Glasgow (22:26):

Because when people tell you … if you’ve gone to a coach and they tell you, “I’m going to help you get from where you are to where you want to be,” and you haven’t done this, then they can’t. They can’t help you because now you are moving forward in the dark.

Ella Glasgow (22:45):

And this is the reason why you’re feeling so uneasy because you are in unfamiliar territory, and you have no clue where you’re really starting from: “Yes, I’m starting from, I have a corporate job right now. Yes, I feel like I want to get out. Yes, I don’t feel like I make enough money. I don’t have enough money to do what it is I want to do.” But do you really? Maybe you do, maybe you do. But if you’ve never done this equation, you have absolutely no clue.

Ella Glasgow (23:12):

And as I have found on either side of the equation, whether it’s a negative or positive number. Actually, I’m remembering a specific client who when she first did this exercise, I said, “What’s the number you got?” She said, “I just realized that my vision is not big enough. I was scared this whole time, and I had no clue that I’m like already this close.”

Stephanie McCullough (23:39):

That’s cool.

Ella Glasgow (23:42):

But you can’t know that if you don’t do these numbers.

Stephanie McCullough (23:45):

It’s so true. And I feel like we harp on this all the time. People come to us, and they say things like, “Well, can I afford to retire?” It depends. What does life cost you? And most people (and really no shame here because this is the world we live in) don’t know exactly what life costs them. They know off the top of their head what their rent is and maybe what their car payment is but the other stuff just kind of happens.

Stephanie McCullough (24:10):

And I think one of the things that stands in our way of looking is that voice in our head that’s like, “You spend how much at Wawa, or you spend this much at whatever,” like the self-judgment is a barrier to doing this exercise.

Ella Glasgow (24:24):

Yeah. It is a paper barrier that people don’t realize is paper.

Kevin Gaines (24:32):

Well, if you don’t know the truth, you could pretend the truth doesn’t exist.

Ella Glasgow (24:35):

Exactly, exactly. And once you have this, then as you go through these numbers and you see what the real gap is, now you have a choice to make, which some people don’t want to know the truth, which is also an answer.

Ella Glasgow (25:01):

You say that you want to go and do X, Y, Z, but your actions, and now that you know the truth are telling me that this is not what you really want. It’s not what you really want. You are doing this for some other reason, and you need to search within yourself to find out why that is.

Ella Glasgow (25:24):

I’m thinking of another client that I had worked with, and we worked through all of this stuff. And originally, when he started working with me, he was not necessarily creative. He had some program that he wanted to be able to give to young people having been in the military for many years. And he wanted to take this training, give it to young people and help them to understand how to succeed in the corporate world.

Ella Glasgow (25:44):

And he at the time worked at a college as well. And I said, “Okay, here’s what we’re going to do. We went through the whole process.” Because this is what I’m talking about is a part of a whole process. This is just a tiny piece of the whole of the entire program.

Ella Glasgow (26:05):

So, we went through the program, and we got his things together and put his idea into practice. I said, “Okay, here’s what you’re going to do. Now that we know, you are going to go and do this program at the college because you’re already there. You can do it for free, you can do it for a dollar, whatever you want to do, let’s just test it out. Because you already have the people in front of you.”

Ella Glasgow (26:31):

People signed up, they did the course, they loved what he did. I said, “Okay, here’s what we need to do with charging.” Well, “I don’t know.” And I said, “Look, you went from six years because that’s what you told me. You’ve been sitting on this for six years, and in a matter of three weeks we’ve already implemented the program, and now you’re telling me that you can’t do X, Y, and Z.”

Ella Glasgow (26:55):

So, he had a whole bunch of other excuses as to why he couldn’t … “Well, I got to go get more training, I got to go do …”

Stephanie McCullough (27:01):

Places to hide.

Ella Glasgow (27:04):

Which obviously that’s fear talking, but it’s also letting me know maybe it’s not really something that you want to do. If you’re going to … you literally just did the program, you just did it. If you hadn’t done it already, then maybe I would say you need to go get some more training.

Ella Glasgow (27:15):

If there was nobody that came out a success story on the other side, then you know what, maybe you do need to go get another certificate. But first, let’s ask ourselves, “Do these kids even care about the certificate that you’re talking about? Do they even know?”

Stephanie McCullough (27:28):

No. No. No. Exactly.

Ella Glasgow (27:31):

So, you want to spend another year or so to not do so that you can go get a certificate to make you feel good. Really? Okay. Do you boo.

Stephanie McCullough (27:42):

But something else is going on. Also, the hesitation to charge. This is what I see a lot with my self-employed clients or my clients who are thinking about doing their own thing: “Oh, I don’t want to charge these people. I’m trying to help them.” But that doesn’t have to be a conflict.

Ella Glasgow (28:01):

So, here’s the other piece of that math. You’ve got your gap now because you’re … so, here’s the thing, here’s the truth of it — you don’t have to start out. If you’re working another job, you know what you’re making for the — you don’t have to quit immediately. You already have whatever you have.

Ella Glasgow (28:27):

And now instead of having to make, let’s say it’s a hundred thousand dollars and the gap was 50,000, you don’t have to make 150,000. All you need to do is make an extra 50,000. That’s all you have to start with.

Ella Glasgow (28:41):

The fear comes up, “Oh, I got to make 150,000 my business to make it work.” No, you don’t. You already have 100,000. So, if we only have to make 50,000, okay, let’s divide that 50,000 by 12.

Ella Glasgow (28:55):

Okay, what is that a month? Let’s divide that number by four because that’s four weeks. Okay. Awesome. Now, you have those numbers, and now you have the ability to decide how you want to make those numbers, monthly numbers, weekly numbers happen. But if you don’t have these numbers to start with — and here’s the thing, let’s do the math, hold on.

Ella Glasgow (29:24):

Because I’m not going to sit here and tell you that I’m a mathematician because I’m a musician. I can count to 8 and 16. So, we’re going to divide 50,000 by 12, we get $4,166. Let’s just say make it a round number and make it 4,000. So, that’s a thousand a week.

Ella Glasgow (29:43):

Now, you can start playing with numbers and decide how many people you want to help each month. Does that mean you have to charge $4,000 per person? Maybe you do. Maybe that feels good for you. Maybe that means, “Okay, I don’t feel comfortable charging one person. I’m not there yet.”

Ella Glasgow (30:04):

It’s something you can do, but I’m not there yet. Spiritually, my mind can’t take it, that’s fine. Let’s divide it by … let’s see. We want to make 4,000 a month because that’s what we need. Okay, let’s do five people divided by five. Now, it’s $800 a person, how does that feel? That’s five people, okay cool.

Ella Glasgow (30:26):

Five people, it still feels, “I don’t know if I can charge people 800.” Let’s divide it by 10, that’s $400 per person. How does that feel? And as you go up in numbers though, remember that means there’s more people that you have to service. Does 10 people feel like a lot of people? If 10 is your limit, you need to find out what your limit is for the amount of people that you want to serve as well as just you.

Stephanie McCullough (30:54):

Or clients or contracts or corporate, whoever is you’re serving. Whatever your service model is.

Ella Glasgow (30:59):

How many can you handle? If 10 is the limit, then 10 is the limit. And you know, okay to do 4,000 a month, like I can’t do more than 10 people. That’s all I can do. That means that you must, at the very minimum — you must charge 400. You can’t go less. It doesn’t matter if you feel like it’s too much. If you go less, it’s going to take you a whole lot longer. You’re going to add stress. It’s going to be a whole lot more stressful for you.

Kevin Gaines (31:30):

Now, when you’re having these conversations, how many times you get the pushback of, “I don’t want to charge that much?” How often does it turn out that it’s more of lack of confidence to charge that much? And how do you help with that?

Ella Glasgow (31:48):

So, now remember, I haven’t worked with these clients and done this work in a while because I’m working on people’s events now. That being said, I do sometimes talk to those clients to tell them that they don’t need to be doing these events for free, and then wondering why they’re not making any money.

Ella Glasgow (32:09):

Well, if you would’ve charged at least $5, you would’ve covered the cost that you paid me. But that being said with confidence, when it comes to the charging, and these are conversations that I have with myself as well, I get it. I understand. I get it.

Ella Glasgow (32:32):

Some things are going to feel uneasy, and you have to be willing to go through that uneasy feeling. And you have to be willing … this is actually a conversation that I had with somebody the other day, them talking to someone else about working with me.

Ella Glasgow (32:51):

And they were projecting their situation onto the person that — they started out saying, the first words out of their mouth, “They need you.” Those were the first words out of their mouth and immediately followed, “But they can’t afford you.”

Ella Glasgow (33:08):

“How do you know? Are you sitting down with their financial numbers? Have you talked to them about their numbers? I mean, if you have, then maybe you’re right. ” Well, they’ve got this and this and this.” Okay. But do you know how they’re working their money in their bank and what they find is important, do you know that? If you don’t, then keep your projections out of their minds.

Ella Glasgow (33:35):

And that goes with you charging. You don’t know what your potential client’s situation really is. You are projecting your fears onto them.

Stephanie McCullough (33:48):

Yeah, it’s true. And I’ve had clients, therapists for example, who have increased their prices and nobody leaves. And I’m not saying nobody leaves ever, and they can keep a sliding scale, that’s what I always say.

Stephanie McCullough (34:02):

You can always discount people, but you can set your higher price higher. And most likely, people are still getting so much value from what you’re doing for them because you’re the expert at it, that they are happy to hand over the dollars.

Ella Glasgow (34:18):

And I’m going to tell you from personal experience because some people, back to what Kevin was saying/asking, what about that pushback? Because you’re going to find that as you play with these numbers, you’re going to do it. I promise you’re going to do it. Especially if you’re doing this on your own and you’re not calling me or you’re not calling Stephanie and Kevin to help you work through this financial stuff, it’s going to happen.

Stephanie McCullough (34:46):

And here’s what’s going to happen: you’re going to be like, “Okay, well, I’m going to charge the 400, I’m going to do it.” And they’re going to say no. You’re be like, “Oh, it’s too high.” Okay, I’m going to take it down, 250.” And they’re going to say, “No. Oh, it’s too high.”” I’m going to take it down. Okay, I’m going to do it for $27.”

Ella Glasgow (35:04):

And they’re going to say no, and you’re going to be like, “This doesn’t work. I can’t do this on my own. I’m going to have to stay with my corporate job because everybody says no,” and there’s no — why am I saying this? Because this is my story.

Ella Glasgow (35:14):

I’m telling you literally what I have done. And not just a long time ago, I’m talking about last year. As I was trying to figure out, okay, what do I need to do to work with small businesses? Because I came out of doing virtual events for corporate.

Stephanie McCullough (35:30):

Which is a different world.

Ella Glasgow (35:32):

Which is a very different world. Okay, well, if I charge … for corporate, small businesses kept saying no. “What do you mean you don’t have $25,000 for this one hour? What you talking about?” I didn’t see that. Right, okay. Alright, let me change it. Let’s change it to this amount. That’s much, much smaller.

Ella Glasgow (35:54):

“Oh, I can’t afford it.” “You can’t afford it?” “Okay, let me change it to this number. ” “Oh, I can’t afford it. Oh, I can’t afford it.” It’s not that they can’t afford it, you are not speaking to what is important to them.

Ella Glasgow (36:07):

And this is what I was speaking about with my creatives. We have a problem sometimes with understanding what’s valuable to them. If I’m talking about all of the way that I put the colors on the screen is really so inviting.

Ella Glasgow (36:20):

And people love it when I play this particular music. And that may be, there is some psychology to that, but guess who doesn’t get that? The person you’re trying to sell it to because they don’t care. That’s not what they care about.

Stephanie McCullough (36:35):

So, part of it’s the conversation about how you are, as you said, portraying the value of what you do. And that, I mean, I’ve been through a journey, and I don’t think I’ve perfected it of explaining the value of this smooshy thing we do called financial planning. It is smooshy and there’s a lot of misunderstandings about what it is. So, it is a challenge to speak to the potential clients’ pain points and what they really value.

Ella Glasgow (37:05):

Especially if you have never worked with that particular clientele before, it’s hard to know what those pain points are. But thanks to the power of Bard, you can know. Come on AI, love it or hate it, thank you Bard.

Stephanie McCullough (37:36):

I don’t even know that name, Bard.

Ella Glasgow (37:38):

And I wondered if you knew. So, most people are familiar with when it comes to AI, most people are familiar with ChatGPT. Because that’s the one that’s been all over the headlines or open AI. And if you haven’t heard anything about AI at all, no, we’re not talking about the apocalypse.

Stephanie McCullough (37:58):

Or Allen Iverson.

Kevin Gaines (38:01):

We are Philly.

Ella Glasgow (38:05):

We’re talking about mediums and things that are out there now. They’re called large language models that have kind of taken in all of the world’s information, and have put it into this place that kind of works like an Encyclopedia Britannica.

Ella Glasgow (38:26):

You can ask it a question; it’ll give you an answer. Now, depending on which systems you’re using, because there are several. There’s ChatGPT, there’s Claude, there’s Bard, there’s so many now. And understanding how to use each because they all work a little bit differently.

Ella Glasgow (38:44):

But it allows you, using those tools, using those tools now, you can get a little closer to understanding the audience that you may not have ever worked with before.

Stephanie McCullough (38:59):

So, you’re saying take advantage of these tools to learn what people are looking for and what they’re hurting around that might be connected to what you are proposing to offer.

Ella Glasgow (39:11):

Exactly, exactly. Now, obviously, you still have to fact check. And the thing is that none of these tools are the end all be all. Do I use these tools on the regular? You know I do. Yes, I do. But I can only come from the standpoint of my own expertise.

Ella Glasgow (39:33):

So, these are the researches and these are things that you should have been doing already before Bard came onto the planet. But the cool thing about the AI is that it makes it a little easier. It’s a little more streamlined because now, you’re not necessarily having to search through all of the documentation. You can get targeted directed answers, but still working off of what you know.

Ella Glasgow (39:56):

Because there are some things that you know and I will have to tell it that, “Thanks so much Bard. That’s all well and good. But wouldn’t it actually make more sense if this was the dah, dah, dah?” Bard replies, “Oh, you’re right. I was thinking about the wrong thing. I’m so sorry.”

Stephanie McCullough (40:15):

So, don’t give up your intelligence when you interact with the artificial one. Interesting.

Ella Glasgow (40:21):

It just makes the process much faster and easier.

Stephanie McCullough (40:26):

You don’t have to go out and interview 300 people, you’re getting the benefit of more info quickly, but be a little smart about it.

Ella Glasgow (40:37):

So, when it comes to this particular equation that we’ve been talking about for you finding your success number, understanding where the gap is from … the real gap of where you are, from where you are to where you want to be, understanding that real gap, this is just a piece of a larger program.

Ella Glasgow (40:58):

And what I would like for you to understand is that I am going to be giving a link to Stephanie and Kevin for you to have the recording, the full recording. It’s 13 minutes long of going through this process so that you can understand the full of everything.

Stephanie McCullough (41:14):

Awesome. Thank you.

Ella Glasgow (41:16):

I’ll give you that link, and then if you want the entire program that’s around this, because this involves you understanding what are you really trying to do? What is the actual dream? And understanding how to really reverse engineer. Because that’s what the successful people are doing. They’re reverse engineering their dream.

Ella Glasgow (41:31):

And there’s a very particular way to do it. Everybody’s asked you, you’ve been told, “Where do you want to be in 10 years or 5 years?” That’s what they said in college: “Where do you want to be in five years?” Okay, I wrote it down. Five years later, nothing happened. Because there are more steps to that puzzle that you must know and understand. And that’s a part of that course. It’s called Permission to Dream and Dream Ignition Bootcamp.

Ella Glasgow (41:59):

So, with that particular course, what I am willing to do because Stephanie, you and I talked about this before — while it’s not something that I’m focused on right now, it is something that I understand that you need and it’s just sitting here.

Stephanie McCullough (42:14):

Been created by the amazing mind of Ella.

Ella Glasgow (42:18):

So, what I will be doing is putting that together and a way for you to download. It will be for you to work through on your own. It’ll be $97 for you to have the entire program, and work through that so that you can finally understand. And once you have that, it will make it so much easier for you.

Stephanie McCullough (42:35):

Or if you’re imagining your next step, jumping off the corporate ship into the great unknown, I imagine it could be helpful there as well.

Ella Glasgow (42:46):

You will know exactly what the next step is. With this, you’ll know exactly what the next step is. And you’ll find that it’s not as scary as you thought.

Stephanie McCullough (42:57):

Awesome. Thank you for that Ella, I appreciate it. And how can folks find you and follow you, and learn more about the amazing work you’re doing in the world right now?

Stephanie McCullough (43:06):

So, to learn more about the virtual events that I produce and I’m able to produce for you, I would suggest that you connect with me on LinkedIn, that’s where I am the most. I have other places to be … so find me on LinkedIn, I’m Ella Glasgow on LinkedIn.

Ella Glasgow (43:23):

I have a big smiley picture. Right now, it’s with yellow in the background. It might change, I don’t know, but right now it’s with yellow in the background. Find me there, connect with me there, follow me there, and watch what it is that I’m doing there.

Stephanie McCullough (43:35):

Follow Ella’s live events. I went to one yesterday, it’s amazing, the business breakthrough. It’s fun and punchy and engaging, and just really valuable.

Ella Glasgow (43:45):

So, there’s that. You can also go to my website. You can go to beyondvirtualevents.com, and you can schedule time with me there to see what it’s going to take to elevate your event and make it be something that works for you instead of feeling like it is an expense that you don’t get an ROI from.

Stephanie McCullough (44:05):

Awesome. Well, thank you Ella. It’s been a pleasure to have you on.

Ella Glasgow (44:10):

Thank you for having me. Thank you both. I really appreciate you bringing me on and letting me talk about all these things. I’m clearly still passionate about people and their money.

Stephanie McCullough (44:20):

Absolutely. Which is why we connected so strongly.

[Music Playing]

Kevin Gaines (44:29):

I’ve got to say this, Stephanie, what I liked was her first question when she’s discussing where to end up with your price point, is what do you need to earn to feel successful. Not what is everybody telling you need to charge, or you should be making or anything like that. But just within you, what is it that you’re looking for? I think that’s really important.

Stephanie McCullough (44:57):

Well, and I think we can get stuck on numbers. Either what we’ve seen somebody else in a similar field charging or the most we’ve ever paid for this type of service. And there’s a lot of different ways we can get stuck both on the individual, what we charge a single client, and also on the what we think we can earn.

Stephanie McCullough (45:17):

Whether it’s a high number or a low number, there’s ways to kind of get numbers stuck in your head that are not actually connected to reality and to specifically your personal reality.

Kevin Gaines (45:28):

But we have this conversation all the time with people because clients will come to us and say, “Well, this is what I need to do for retirement.” And a lot of their preconceptions are, “This is what everybody says, this is what I’m always hearing, da-da-da.”

Kevin Gaines (45:47):

And then, you know, we have the same conversation. May not necessarily phrase it — well, I don’t phrase it, “What does it feel, what you need to earn to feel successful?” But in a lot of ways, it is. That question I, “What’s important to you? What are you looking for?”

Stephanie McCullough (46:05):

Yeah. What’s going to feel good to you? But then putting the real numbers on it and putting all the numbers, not just your monthly regular bills that you know about, but the discretionary things, the miscellaneous stuff, and the fun cost. What do you want to be able to do? And then figuring out the gap.

Stephanie McCullough (46:25):

Especially when you’re talking about a potential retirement time of life, maybe there is some income coming in. At a certain point we’ll all have social security. Yes, Kevin, and I don’t believe it’s going away. The benefits might change, or we might have to be a little older to get it, but that is a basis.

Stephanie McCullough (46:43):

So, you look at your expenses, you look at social security, maybe you’re lucky enough to have a pension, even if it’s only $400 a month or something small — hey, maybe it’ll cover their cell phone bill. Maybe you’ve got some rental income, maybe you’ve got something else that’s dribbling in. But then what’s the gap between that income and what life costs you?

Kevin Gaines (47:03):

Stephanie, I did actually like exploring the AI conversation a little bit.

Stephanie McCullough (47:07):

That’s something I didn’t know we were going to get into. I could tell you guys could have gone and on for a couple hours, so I had to cut that one short. But Ella’s been also very generous to share … we’re going to share the link to the 13-minute video where she walks through this equation in more detail about coming up with the gap.

Stephanie McCullough (47:26):

And then she’s offering this lovely price on her Permission to Dream course. If people are interested in looking into that a little bit deeper, we’ll also have that link in the show notes. Thanks so much for being with us, we’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.

Kevin Gaines (47:40):

And it’s goodbye from her.

[Music Playing]

Stephanie McCullough (47:43):

Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends, show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only Raymond Loewy through New Math in New York. See you next time.

Voiceover (47:57):

Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group, LLC, a registered Investment Advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.