Stephanie McCullough (00:06):

This is Take Back Retirement, the show that’s redefining retirement for women. Retirement is an old-fashioned cultural concept. We want to reclaim the word so you can make it your own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, financial planner and founder of Sofia Financial, where our mission is to reduce women’s money stress and empower them to make wise holistic decisions so they can get back to living their best lives.

Stephanie McCullough (00:29):

Kevin Gaines is my longtime colleague with deep knowledge in the technical stuff: investments, taxes, retirement plan rules. He’s a little bit nerdy and quantitative, I’m a little bit touchy-feely and qualitative. Together, through conversations and interviews, we aim to give you the information and motivation you need to move forward with confidence. We’re so glad you’re here.

Stephanie McCullough (00:54):

Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes office park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial and American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (01:08):

Hello, Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (01:09):

Today we have a super interesting guest. Carol Marak is an author, a speaker, a mentor, and a go-to authority on aging alone.

Stephanie McCullough (01:22):

Carol, as you will hear, found herself in a situation where she started to ask, “Oh my goodness, who’s going to take care of me as I get older?” So, she has put together a framework for thinking about the different aspects of life that you want to have in place to successfully age solo, and she shares it very generously through her work.

Stephanie McCullough (01:47):

So, without further ado, let’s dive into our conversation with Carol.

Stephanie McCullough (01:56):

Carol Marak, welcome to Take Back Retirement.

Carol Marak (01:59):

Thank you.

Stephanie McCullough (01:59):

We’re excited to have you. I think this is going to be a great, informative conversation.

Carol Marak (02:05):

Oh, no doubt.

Stephanie McCullough (02:06):

I think the best place to start is if you tell us a bit of your story and how you came to be so interested and an expert in the work that you’re doing.

Carol Marak (02:16):

Oh, well that’s such a great question because it was so pivotal in my life. I was working full-time in the high-tech industry and at the same time, my two sisters and I were helping our parents. And my mother just had a lot of chronic issues, chronic conditions, and my dad was starting to have dementia. And it was not only hard, it was very challenging. Anyway, it took three of us and we could have used more people.

Stephanie McCullough (02:58):

I believe it.

Carol Marak (02:59):

Yeah. To help them. And so, what happened was, we all lived through that, and it took several years. And then once they both passed, mother passed before my dad. And then after mom died, dad went into full-blown Alzheimer’s. And he just took really constant attention.

Carol Marak (03:21):

And then eventually ended up in a nursing home. However, we still were committed to making sure he was safe, even in the nursing home.

Carol Marak (03:30):

So, what happened was, once he died, I was out on my walk because I love walking. And I started to reminisce and think about — I was actually missing my parents, and I was thinking about them, and I was already upset because I was missing them. I was crying.

Carol Marak (03:49):

So, I was out on my walk, and then all of a sudden, I realized, God, that was so much work. And then all of a sudden it was like a thought came was, “Oh my gosh, who’s going to do all that for me?”

Carol Marak (04:07):

And so, that’s what did it, it literally scared me a lot. I’m probably one of the only people that ever said that. But it was tremendously frightening for me because it was so much work and they required so much attention and care.

Carol Marak (04:25):

So, that’s when I thought, “Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?” So, it took us several years after that to really start putting a plan together. But I’m so grateful that I did, because I really took it very seriously. And I thought, “Well, where do I start? Oh my gosh, where do you start planning for this huge life event of aging?”

Kevin Gaines (04:54):

Yes.

Stephanie McCullough (04:54):

Yeah.

Carol Marak (04:55):

So, isn’t that the truth? So, what I did was I started to break it down into the different domains that we helped our parents with. And I thought, well, how do I … so, I started to come up with my own little assessment for myself.

Carol Marak (05:12):

And so, what happened was I realized, oh, money, finances and money was my weakest domain. And then so, was-

Stephanie McCullough (05:22):

How so?

Carol Marak (05:23):

I didn’t have much of a savings account. My retirement was, eh, a little iffy. My house was paid for, which was good. My car was paid for, which is good. I didn’t have an emergency fund. Like I said, my savings was very minimal.

Carol Marak (05:40):

So, that’s when I thought I have got to start. So, I started focusing on — I hired a financial advisor. We looked through my budget and I just became very, very frugal. And I really didn’t spend a lot of cash on things I used to buy. And I still don’t. I’m still very frugal. And I save everything I can. I only buy what’s necessary even today because I’ve trained myself to do that.

Carol Marak (06:13):

So, it’s hard for me to go out and just spend frivolously. It really is. So, that’s what happened. And then after that, I looked at my social connections where I lived because the location of where I lived was in the suburbs. I was forced to drive everywhere; I couldn’t walk to any grocery stores or what have you.

Carol Marak (06:35):

So, I mean, I really started thinking very seriously of how am I going to navigate aging alone? And I am very happy to say 10 years later, it’s really longer than that. But I won’t admit it, but I’m doing really well. I have really pulled it all together.

Carol Marak (06:56):

And there’s some things that always need tweaking. My health is excellent. However, I’m starting to get older now, so I have to pay attention to certain things like my cholesterol and other things to just stay focused on fitness, what I eat.

Carol Marak (07:17):

However, I’m in good shape. I’m very happy where I’m at. I put myself in a good location. So, I live in a high rise now where I have neighbors all around me. So, I never feel like I’m isolated and alone. Never ever. I used to feel that all the time before I moved here. And I don’t anymore. I have made some really close friendships. We check in on each other, we help each other out. We share rides if we need it. So, it’s like my family.

Stephanie McCullough (07:52):

So, but it took a lot of concerted effort and paying attention to these things, when you said that you started to look at the different domains that you had helped in, how did you start figuring out what the categories are that you had to come up with a plan for?

Carol Marak (08:09):

Yeah. Well, so what happened was I looked at all the categories, which I now call domains, the categories that my sisters and I helped our parents with. And the first thing was dealing with health, your housing and location, transportation, social connections, faith and spirituality, life purpose, financial matters, legal matters, fun and engagement. And I’m missing one, support. Having support there nearby, you got to have support nearby.

Carol Marak (08:46):

And I don’t mean support like a hospital support or a doctor support, which you have to have that. I’m talking about friends, people who care about you, your neighbors, are you connected?

Carol Marak (08:58):

So, those are the 10 categories that I looked at. And not that my sisters and I helped our parents with all 10 of those. It’s just for me, I expanded on them because I added maybe four or five, because it’s for me, and I have no children. I have no spouse; I don’t have a partner.

Carol Marak (09:22):

And I do have siblings, but they’re all older than I am. I do have nieces and nephews, but they have their own people to take care of. So, I’m on my own. And yes, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of effort. And that’s what I tell people all the time with in my mentoring sessions is, this is hard. You have to be committed to it though. It’s not something that you can do willy-nilly and don’t expect it to be once and done because it’s not. And it’s totally evolving.

Carol Marak (09:58):

But once you have a plan in place and knowing … that’s what I like to tell people. Once you know how to do it one time, you’ll start to relax and know, oh, I’ve already done that. So, I know that if something changes or if I have to pivot and make an adjustment, I’ll know how to do that because I’ve learned the skills.

Kevin Gaines (10:23):

Clearly your parents’ situation was inspiration for all this, but did you also think that having gone through this with your parents, that it made it, I don’t know, say the word easier, but easier to think through and to pick up on all the little things you have to think about, not just the big stuff?

Carol Marak (10:44):

Absolutely, yes. Watching them age was really the key to knowing what to expect. That’s a really wise point that you just made. That’s very good.

Stephanie McCullough (10:58):

And so, what did you tackle first, Carol? You mentioned the finances, but you also moved and lived in a whole different place. How long did it take you to figure out, number one, that you had to move and number two, where to go?

Carol Marak (11:10):

Yeah, when I was living in the suburbs, at the same time, my sister was living downtown in a high rise. So, and that prompted my thinking. Also, I kind of compared my life to hers and how much easier for her it was, as opposed to living in the suburbs was for me.

Carol Marak (11:35):

And so, however, I had to start working on my money before I could make any kind of change. It took me seven years to implement the plan.

Stephanie McCullough (11:46):

Wow.

Carol Marak (11:47):

Yeah, yeah. It takes a while.

Stephanie McCullough (11:49):

It’s a lot of stuff.

Carol Marak (11:51):

It’s a lot of stuff. And that’s why I really encourage people, and it’s not that you have to have the entire plan in place. I did because I was moving closer to 60. So, I felt the pressure. But just start thinking about some of these things. Just start having an awareness of them.

Carol Marak (12:12):

Because once you are aware of your top risks that you will likely face later on, it’s amazing how your brain just starts to automatically think about, “Well that’s interesting, I wonder if I could live that way.” Or “I wonder if I could pick up that exercise. I wonder if I could start walking a mile a day just to start getting in better shape. I wonder if I could change my diet instead of eating this cookie, I should maybe have this piece of fruit instead.” That’s the way the mind works. That’s the way my mind works. I think it does for everyone.

Stephanie McCullough (12:53):

It is fascinating. I think so, living with the questions for a while and being okay, not knowing the answers right away, but if you are holding the questions in your mind, then you notice stuff.

Carol Marak (13:03):

Exactly, exactly. And that’s what I like to do is what is one thing I can do right now, or even just today, to change my cholesterol or to make an improvement for my cholesterol? Well, okay, let’s see. I could probably not eat peanut butter. What do you think?

Stephanie McCullough (13:26):

I love peanut butter.

Kevin Gaines (13:31):

Yeah, I know.

Carol Marak (13:32):

I mean, have it moderately. Right, exactly.

Kevin Gaines (13:35):

Yeah. For stuff like that, you got to figure out, well, what’s the workarounds? If I’m not willing to give that up, where else can I trend?

Carol Marak (13:43):

Exactly, it’s the-

Kevin Gaines (13:44):

Yeah. And as my wife points out to me when I’m doing this kind of stuff, she goes, “It doesn’t always work that way.”

Carol Marak (13:49):

And it’s okay. It’s not going to work that way all the time. However, it’s just good to be cognizant and be aware and be mindful. Especially when you get older. When you’re older, you really should start taking — well, in my opinion, I can’t tell people what to do, but it might be a good idea to being responsible and being a little more mindful. Right?

Stephanie McCullough (14:16):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (14:17):

So, when you started this process, you had the advantage of having a pretty good idea of all the areas you had to look at. When you started the process, which domain do you think did you expect to have the most trouble with or the longest to implement? And then looking back, which areas did it turn out to be the most difficult for you to either adjust your behavior or just to simply put into action?

Carol Marak (14:45):

Yeah, that’s interesting that you asked me that because I think initially when I first started thinking about my future or the years ahead, I kind of assumed it was not having enough support nearby, like friends and knowing my neighbors and having social connections.

Carol Marak (15:05):

I mean, those were kind of my two go-to doubts or feelings that I needed to work on. However, once I started actually assessing and taking a deeper dive because what happened was, what I did is I just started doing a lot of research. How does a person know, or how do I know if I’m financially stable, for example?

Carol Marak (15:33):

Or what are some of the issues an older person faces when living at home? So, I started to do my own research. I mean, I had a pretty good idea just watching my parents what the issues were. But I sincerely wanted to take a deep dive.

Carol Marak (15:50):

And so, when I did that, Kevin, what came up for me was because when I was doing research, it showed me that to be financially stable, I needed an emergency fund. I needed more savings. People need a retirement plan, more than likely need to hire a financial advisor, need to make a certain income.

Carol Marak (16:14):

And then when I was taking that deep dive, it was very clear to me, I think I better start with my money first instead of worrying about making friends right now.

Stephanie McCullough (16:25):

And then it feels like maybe some of the answers came together, because you mentioned living in the high rise brought you some of the social and some of the support. Is that something you imagined would happen in the beginning?

Carol Marak (16:38):

Stephanie, I’m so glad you brought that up because it is so true. Once you start making improvements in one area, it automatically affects another. And I just love how it all came together. For example, when I moved to this high-rise building, first off, I recognized I could walk my errands. So, if I walk my errands, guess what happens? That increases my health and my fitness.

Stephanie McCullough (17:08):

Yes.

Kevin Gaines (17:09):

So, you could start eating more peanut butter. Right?

Carol Marak (17:13):

Right. Then I started meeting more people because I’m out on my walk, I’m passing neighbors, I’m passing people on the street, people who live around here, and we stop. I pass people who are walking their dogs and I stop and have a conversation with them. So, all of that intermingles. And I thought, “Wow, this is fascinating.” So, when I started writing my book, I thought it really hit me. It was like, oh my gosh, it’s all connected.

Stephanie McCullough (17:42):

Yeah.

Carol Marak (17:42):

And I wasn’t even aware of it until I sat down and started writing about it.

Stephanie McCullough (17:47):

What about life purpose? I feel like that’s one that especially people who’ve left a big career might struggle with. Their purpose was their work for so long, and now the work is behind them. Do you find that people struggle in that area?

Carol Marak (18:03):

Oh, absolutely. Yes. Very much so. As a matter of fact, I was talking with a client just several weeks ago, and she’s a retired nurse, however, she’s a retired nurse and would like to have a life purpose. And at the same time, she wanted to make an extra income because she’s retired and she’s in her early 70s.

Carol Marak (18:26):

So, we started talking about some of the skills that she holds from being an RN, what are the skills that she has that she could actually turn into a part-time job because she enjoyed being a nurse. She enjoyed that. That was her character, her essence. She was like, she enjoyed being helpful.

Carol Marak (18:50):

So, she is now thinking about yeah, being either a patient advocate or helping older individuals via Zoom calls to do health related kind of counseling. So yeah, indeed. And so, that’s now not only did it turn into, or will it turn into a part-time job, but it will also serve as part of her life purpose, fulfillment in helping others. Because that’s that part of her, of being a nurse. She just wants to help. So, that’s what she’s doing.

Stephanie McCullough (19:23):

I love that because, absolutely. It’s another area where you’re solving multiple issues with one-

Carol Marak (19:31):

Yes.

Stephanie McCullough (19:31):

Action, so to speak. Because you’ve got some financial, there might be some social connections that come from that, and certainly the feeling of fulfillment and giving back.

Carol Marak (19:40):

That’s right. So, I’m curious, I wonder if I can ask you a question.

Stephanie McCullough (19:44):

Sure.

Kevin Gaines (19:45):

Please do.

Carol Marak (19:47):

As financial advisors, I’m curious if you have conversations like this with your clients.

Stephanie McCullough (19:54):

We do.

Kevin Gaines (19:55):

Yeah. Absolutely.

Carol Marak (19:56):

Okay.

Stephanie McCullough (19:56):

Because really in our opinion, the money is just a tool to do the things that one needs to do in the world, or one wants to do. So, the money is not the be all and end all. So, what is it that we’re trying to support with the money? What is the vision of the life that people want to create now and down the road?

Stephanie McCullough (20:18):

And we certainly try to help people look at all the different factors in the decision. Not just how it affects the pocketbook, but how it affects your feelings of fulfillment and your community and your connections. And sometimes the right answer isn’t the one that’s the cheapest.

Kevin Gaines (20:34):

I mean, at the end of the day, all that stuff is more important, like you were just saying, Stephanie, all that stuff is more important than the money. If you’re not doing what you want to do, what’s the point of having the money? So, a lot of our conversations are, why are we doing this? It can be summed up in that single question, why are we saving this money?

Carol Marak (20:53):

Yeah. What I was going to say was, that’s good that you have those extended conversations because I don’t hear them happening very often. And maybe they do.

Carol Marak (21:03):

However, it seems like the articles, although I read a really good article yesterday on Kiplinger, that a advisor did talk about planning, looking at your long-term care plan and things like that. So, I can only assume he has these conversations with his clients.

Carol Marak (21:24):

But it typically, at least for me, when I do retirement planning, what I usually find is topics around finances, money, and investments. I’m not saying that’s bad, it’s just retirement planning is so full though. And I think finances is a centric part of it. Like you say, Stephanie. And there’s also other things that we need to consider.

Stephanie McCullough (21:50):

Well, and I think finances is the supporting role. It should not be the driver. Well, and even our clients who are in a couple, we try to point out that that might not be the reality for the entirety of both of their lives. Likely one’s going to outlive the other and usually the woman, just statistically, so do you still want to be living where you’re living now if you’re solo? Where are your family members? Where is your base of support?

Stephanie McCullough (22:17):

And as I’m thinking about it, we probably can do a better job of bringing those conversations to the fore. Because as you know, you had a big kind of aha moment, but you kind of need that nudge or that kick in the pants to do this stuff because it’s not easy work.

Carol Marak (22:33):

No. Right, yes. I think you have to be scared.

Stephanie McCullough (23:37):

Yeah. And I don’t want to scare people.

Carol Marak (22:39):

Right, exactly. But I was terrified. I truly was terrified. That’s what got me going though.

Stephanie McCullough (22:46):

So, I think we would be buying your book to share out, to scare people.

Carol Marak (22:51):

Well, yeah, I mean, because I had that experience with my parents, and I saw what happened to them and I thought I could possibly be there one day. What am I going to do? Oh, my gosh. I mean, it did, it terrified me.

Stephanie McCullough (23:04):

And they had three daughters to help them. And for those who don’t-

Carol Marak (23:08):

Yes, exactly. And even if you have kids, they may live far away and can’t be there for you within an hour or five minutes or what have you.

Stephanie McCullough (23:20):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (23:21):

I mean, and even if they are … because we have one client, her kids were very involved in her life, but the closest one was I think about seven hours away. So, they couldn’t be there day in and day out when the big things happened, they were able to get there to help out. But it’s that little stuff, and frankly, it’s the little stuff that you got to pay attention to, otherwise you create more big stuff.

Carol Marak (23:48):

Yes.

Kevin Gaines (23:49):

That’s what I took away from that experience anyway.

Carol Marak (23:51):

Yes. And for example, what you refer to Kevin is, for example, if your relatives live seven hours away, who will your healthcare proxy be? Is that person or those people who live seven hours away a wise choice? Probably not. And so, what other options do you have for a healthcare proxy to be someone who’s living nearby? What does that look like?

Stephanie McCullough (24:20):

Yeah, yeah. And one of the conversations we have to have with people when we’re doing the financial projections is, well, how long do we think you might be around on this earth needing money? And a lot of people are like, “Oh, I don’t want to live that long.” That’s nice. You might live that long, and you might-

Kevin Gaines (24:39):

But you might.

Stephanie McCullough (24:39):

Need help, need care. “Oh, I won’t live that long.” Okay. Somebody’s going to, statistically, it could easily be you.

Carol Marak (24:46):

Oh, my gosh. Got to talk about denial, right?

Stephanie McCullough (24:50):

Yeah. And rather be long and healthy life than head in the sand.

Carol Marak (24:55):

Yes. Oh, yes. We cannot live with our head in the sands. Not when it comes to aging. Oh, my gosh. But so many people do. It’s frightening.

Stephanie McCullough (25:05):

Yeah, absolutely. So, have you inspired your friends and family, Carol, to follow your lead?

Carol Marak (25:11):

Some. Oh, my family. Yeah. My family is well prepared, thank goodness. And my sisters are, my brother is and his family. They are. Some of my friends, yes. And some no. They don’t really want to think about it.

Kevin Gaines (25:28):

So, as you were developing all of these domains, and it may not be a domain, it may be a sub-domain. What was one of the more surprising things that you realized is like, oh my gosh, I never thought that I was going to have to think about this, but hey, this is kind of important.

Carol Marak (25:46):

Yes. I would say the biggest one or two, I should say, is the financial proxy, having a financial proxy and a healthcare proxy. I would say those are the two surprising ones for me, because I have my sister doing both, but she’s almost 80. And that’s just a dumb choice for me.

Carol Marak (26:12):

Not that she wouldn’t do a good job, it’s just I shouldn’t put that burden on her. I need to re-look at that. And I am re-looking at that now, and I’m considering either a patient advocate or a care manager or someone else on the legal team to do that.

Kevin Gaines (26:32):

That’s the second time you’ve mentioned the phrase patient advocate. What is a patient advocate?

Carol Marak (26:37):

A patient advocate is a person who’s certified through training to oversee and look them up online too, because I’m not going to do it justice, but they’re trained to really understand the healthcare system. So, if one of their clients goes to the hospital and that client needs help navigating that healthcare system through it being a case manager or talking to the doctor or understanding their medical tests or helping them make decisions, a patient advocate is trained to do that.

Carol Marak (27:17):

And they’re also trained in preventative type of measures also. For example, if someone’s dealing with a health issue, then that patient advocate probably has trained hers or his mind to think through how that person could make improvements. And so, that’s a patient advocate. But again, google patient advocate, I highly recommend and read more about it.

Carol Marak (27:47):

And then there’s care managers and care managers they used to be termed geriatric care managers. And many of them are nurses, RNs that are in that role. So, they all already have really pretty intense background in health, healthcare.

Carol Marak (28:07):

And the care manager, they do home assessments. They come in and talk to the client to see if they are indeed safe at home, they help them assess their health and then either look for options for them to make improvements, if it be home modifications, for example. Or even moving to a senior housing community.

Carol Marak (28:36):

So, those are the two biggest different. The patient advocate typically is not, but could be a nurse, a trained nurse. But care managers typically are nurses. So, they come from that background.

Stephanie McCullough (28:49):

Carolyn, your Life Plan Assessment that you’ve put together, and you have a book coming, an online course about, how do you walk people through each domain? Is there a series of questions or a series of points that you bring up with folks? What does it look like?

Carol Marak (29:05):

Yeah. First off, when they get involved in my mentoring, whatever part of that, whatever that looks like, even if it’s just taking the Life Plan Assessment, which is online, the Life Plan Assessment, it asks 15 questions per domain. And it really gets a person thinking. And it has nothing to do with HIPAA. So, there’s no private information that you’re giving.

Stephanie McCullough (29:32):

Privacy.

Carol Marak (29:33):

Yes, privacy. And what it does, it’s just helping you do your own level of satisfaction, your own self-assessment. How satisfied am I? Like the first question in healthcare or the health domain is, how satisfied are you in knowing your family medical history?

Carol Marak (29:58):

And a lot of people are, “Yeah, I know what I can expect, potentially what I can expect.” I know I was; I knew my family medical history inside and out because not only helping my parents, but also our grandparents, we were a very close-knit traditional family. So, I knew what even what their health issues were.

Carol Marak (30:21):

As a kid, my parents were dealing with them. So, but I had all that, I already have that information. So, knowing what my family medical history is and then looking at my current annual tests and blood results and all of that, annual visits with my doctor, we can kind of tie the two together and she can come up with a clearer care plan for me and what am I at risk for in my health, knowing all of that information.

Stephanie McCullough (30:56):

Oh, right. What might be on the horizon.

Carol Marak (30:59):

Yeah. And as a matter of fact, I was talking with a friend the other day, and her parents … I think she had cancer and Alzheimer’s in her family, with her family medical history. Her mother died early. Her dad did, plus her sister died from heart condition, I think it was heart or cancer. I’m sorry, I don’t remember which one.

Carol Marak (31:20):

But anyway, all three of them died when they were young. So, she just thought, well, I don’t really need a plan because I’m going to die young anyway. Seriously, I’m serious. I think she’s 58 right now. And so, we were having this conversation and she said, “You know what, my doctor invited me to take this brand-new genetic testing to find out if I’m prone to Alzheimer’s or whatever chronic disease.” It’s like a very expensive genetic test. But this company was offering a set of them to her doctor.

Carol Marak (32:03):

So, she took the test and lo and behold, she has none of those, she’s not prone to Alzheimer’s, she’s not prone to heart disease. She said, “Oh my gosh, I better start planning.”

Stephanie McCullough (32:17):

I’m not going to drop dead next week.

Carol Marak (32:20):

So, see how knowing these little things, how they will affect you, how they could affect your planning in the years ahead. So, family medical history is one of the questions I ask.

Carol Marak (32:32):

Another one is, what is your diet? How healthy is your diet? How much alcohol do you drink? How much healthy diet? Well, there’s 15 questions that people will answer. And what they’re doing is they’re rating it of their level of satisfaction.

Carol Marak (32:53):

And then it goes from health to housing and location. And so, the total is 150 questions per life assessment. And it takes about 15 minutes.

Kevin Gaines (33:09):

For that many questions, that’s not all that long.

Stephanie McCullough (33:12):

I guess you’re supposed to know the answers, right?

Carol Marak (33:16):

Well, because you’re only measuring your level of satisfaction. It’s not like you have to go and take a test for something.

Carol Marak (33:24):

So anyway, that’s the first part. Everyone starts with knowing because you have to know what your risks are. You have to know where you’re falling short before you can even start thinking about putting a plan, a whole life plan together.

Stephanie McCullough (33:39):

So, tell me if you see the same thing. I see when clients come in, they feel super stressed and anxious because they don’t know anything yet. They kind of have this generalized worry, like, oh, I don’t think I have my arms around all my financial stuff, and I don’t really know where all my money is and if it’s going to be enough.

Stephanie McCullough (33:58):

But as soon as we start taking action, their stress level drops down. Even if it’s not — I mean, I don’t have a magic wand. I can’t make millions of dollars up here in their account, but taking that action just alone reduces their stress because I think they’re feeling like they have some agency. Do you see something similar?

Carol Marak (34:17):

Yes, yes. Uh-huh, I do. I do. Just like that RN, that retired RN, she was depressed. She was like, “I’m just depressed. I need to do something.” And then just weeks later, she’s exuberant and she’s excited and she’s starting to have potential opportunities. And she’s talking to people. She’s out and about and she’s, “And I’m even calling the local university, because I’m thinking about renting one of my rooms to a student.”

Stephanie McCullough (34:51):

Oh, good.

Carol Marak (34:53):

Yeah. It’s really fun to watch her blossom. Yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (34:57):

Opening the possibilities.

Carol Marak (34:59):

Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

Kevin Gaines (35:02):

So, I’m sure you’re never too young to start thinking about all of this. However, what age or what point in your life would you really encourage people to really start tackling these topics?

Carol Marak (35:18):

I was 55 when I started looking at this, seriously. I didn’t do much about it at 55 because it still took a couple of years for me to kind of gain my balance, because I just lost my parents. But I recommend 45.

Stephanie McCullough (35:38):

Wow.

Carol Marak (35:39):

Yeah. Starting at 45. 50 for sure. 55, definitely.

Stephanie McCullough (35:45):

I’m behind.

Carol Marak (35:45):

Because I see what happens because I run this Facebook group called Elder Orphans on Facebook. And some of these people are 65, 70, 75, and they’re not thinking about this. And they come and they open a discussion, or they ask a question, “What am I going to do about … here I am 75 and what am I going to do?”

Carol Marak (36:16):

And I’m thinking, oh yeah, yeah. It’s like, oh my gosh, that’s 75. That’s a heck of a time to start thinking about these things. That would be scary. Very scary. But so that’s why I recommend starting early.

Stephanie McCullough (36:34):

Well, and things take time to put into place. Your connections in your community, they’re not just going to appear overnight, and you need to have them in place before you need them. Right?

Carol Marak (36:44):

Right. And when you start thinking this way, because it’s kind of like preventative measures. So, let’s say for example, you’re 45 and you’re thinking about moving to a new town or a new city and take a new job, for example. 45 or 50, because that happens.

Carol Marak (37:05):

So, this is kind of added ammunition, things to think about to make a wise decision. Are you leaving a strong base of support? Are you leaving social connections? Who are you leaving and where are you going? And who will you connect with when you get there?

Carol Marak (37:25):

I mean, sure, you have your job now, but when do you plan to retire in 5, 10 years from then? And then what if you don’t have a strong sense of family or connections or support?

Carol Marak (37:40):

Like for me, I would never consider — well, maybe I would. But I don’t think I would consider moving from Texas because I feel so connected here. Well, I know I wouldn’t, I would not ever do that. Can you imagine going, and I know people that at 70 move, they move, they move to another town because they don’t like the heat, for example. Or they don’t like the climate, or they don’t like whatever.

Carol Marak (38:15):

And they move. And I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, is that wise?” You’re going to a place where you don’t know anyone. That’s scary. It scares me. Obviously it doesn’t scare them.

Kevin Gaines (38:30):

If somebody is listening to this episode and they go, “Damn, I should probably start thinking through this stuff. Let me go to Carol’s website and start this whole process.” They go to your website, what’s the first thing they should do? Should they do the assessment? Should they get the book? Should they YouTube? What would you suggest?

Carol Marak (38:53):

Yes, yes, and yes. Yeah. Well, definitely. Why not? I mean, you can opt in for, it’s a brief kind of eBook or eGuide on kind of getting your mind, starting to think what to start thinking about. And that’s free. You just download it. You’ll be added to my newsletter, but that’s a free option.

Carol Marak (39:20):

You can find my book on my website, take a look at my Solo and Smart YouTube. That’s a great place to start because I have quite a bit of videos there talking about these issues. You could start there. Absolutely. It’s a good question. And you can find that at carolmarak.com or soloandsmartaging.com.

Stephanie McCullough (39:47):

Super. We’ll definitely put those in the show notes.

Kevin Gaines (39:49):

We’ve kind of touched on this … and asking for a friend, but couples, how much of what you cover is applicable to them? Because hypothetically, couple in their early 50s, don’t have kids, family’s really not immediately around. What should this friend I’m asking for be thinking about?

Carol Marak (40:13):

That’s a great question. As a matter of fact, there’ll be couples, especially couples who have no children, have the same issues, in my opinion, as a solo single person. Absolutely.

Carol Marak (40:28):

And how I like to think of or you’re a pro to thinking about this is do you identify with the term solo aging, whether you have kids or not? Do you identify with it because it’s more of a subjective, I think it’s more subjective than anything. Because if you don’t feel that you have support, no matter if you have a daughter that lives 10 miles away, if you don’t feel like you’re receiving support from her, then perhaps you are identifying with that term solo aging. I’m on my own.

Kevin Gaines (41:12):

You’re right. Yes.

Carol Marak (41:12):

So, and couples, yeah absolutely. I know a lot of couples that have no children or their children live far away and they considered themselves solo agers, even though they have each other. One of the spouse, the male, the man, he wanted his wife to be coached because he wanted her and he was coached with her, but he wanted her to be prepared because he knew that he would die more than likely before her.

Carol Marak (41:44):

So, he wanted to make sure she was prepared because he didn’t want to leave her high and dry. And how many widows do you find, whether you’re male or female, that are left high and dry?

Kevin Gaines (41:55):

Absolutely.

Stephanie McCullough (41:55):

Oh, totally. Yeah. In more ways than one. So, it’s good stuff for all of us to think about. And I so appreciate you’re putting out this structure into the world, Carol. I think it’s a huge service.

Carol Marak (42:07):

Oh, well thank you. Thank you. Well, I had a lot of help.

Kevin Gaines (42:12):

What you’re talking about is just invaluable.

Carol Marak (42:14):

Yes. I think it’s very valuable. I really do. I do. It’s my life purpose.

Stephanie McCullough (42:21):

Yay.

Kevin Gaines (42:24):

I’ll actually say this, when Stephanie said, “Hey, I just came across this great guest for a podcast episode,” and within one sentence of her describing what you do, I’m screaming, “Yes, yes, yes.” And I don’t give a damn about our listeners. I want to hear this stuff.

Carol Marak (42:44):

Oh, good. Well, thank you, Kevin. Yeah, I agree. It’s very important. I truly love it. I truly love what I do because it’s so important and it has helped so many people and I just love that.

Stephanie McCullough (42:58):

That’s awesome. Cheers to you.

Carol Marak (43:00):

And thank you. Thank you for having me on.

Stephanie McCullough (43:03):

Of course.

Carol Marak (43:03):

Yeah. And I appreciate you two having me on. Thank you.

Stephanie McCullough (43:07):

Absolutely. Happy to do it.

Carol Marak (43:08):

Yes.

Kevin Gaines (43:08):

Thank you.

Kevin Gaines (43:14):

I got to say, that was interesting. And to be honest, as I said earlier, this has been an episode I’ve been looking forward to because it actually does relate to me personally. I’m not single at the moment, but we don’t have that family structure around us, either kids or family nearby that we can say, oh, well-

Stephanie McCullough (43:34):

You mean the dog won’t take care of you?

Kevin Gaines (43:37):

No, if I turn around and drop dead, he may use me as dinner for a couple days, but that’ll be about it.

Stephanie McCullough (43:43):

Ew.

Kevin Gaines (43:43):

But yeah, I mean, so it’s something a lot of us have to think about. And as we said, it’s something that more and more people are having to face. Birth rates are falling across this country. There are more couples that do not have children. There are more people who are single in their older years, whether it’s, they never got married, they got divorced. They became widowed.

Kevin Gaines (44:11):

But this is something that a lot of us have to have to just think about and ask some of these questions. And I’m really thankful that Carol has taken the time, or that she had that eureka moment to say, “Oh my gosh, I have to figure all this stuff out.” And then she turned around and she’s sharing it with all of us, and it’s going to generate a lot of conversations, I hope.

Stephanie McCullough (44:35):

I mean, the reality is for the majority of couples, at least male-female couples, the women are going to outlive the men. Statistically, 80% of men die married, whereas 80% of women die single. So, most of us women will be solo and aging at some point.

Stephanie McCullough (44:57):

So, even for the people currently married, I would advise them to start thinking about doing this planning. And I really do appreciate that Carol says it’s not a once and done activity. Planning is a verb, not a noun. You’re going to have to make adjustments as life goes on. It’s very smart to start early. It doesn’t have to be perfect, and you’re going to inevitably have to make some adjustments.

Kevin Gaines (45:31):

Right. I mean, and it’s not just these general concepts that she’s talking about. She’s spends time going into some details. The whole idea of having a patient advocate or somebody who can act on your behalf on medical issues, you might be, yes, fine if you’re single, but again, if you’re married, my wife, for example, she’s married to a medical idiot, she has said she doesn’t want her husband making a whole lot of medical decisions for her.

Kevin Gaines (46:00):

So, yeah, alright, honey, here you go. Here’s somebody who can, if nothing else, help me think through these things. If you can’t make the decision or give you somebody smarter than me to think through these things.

Kevin Gaines (46:14):

And I appreciate her going into these details, we’re not just talking about general concepts. You need to think about your health, you need to think about your community. She actually delves down into something as specific as understanding patient advocate.

Kevin Gaines (46:32):

Do you need one? How will that person help you? Or a care manager? What’s going to work best for me and my situation? So, it’s just not this theoretical, conceptual thing. It’s the actual nuts and bolts of making these choices now, so you don’t have to in the future.

Stephanie McCullough (46:52):

And at least educating yourself on the resources available so that when the time comes, you’re like, “Oh, right, I’ve already vetted people. I’m going with this agency or whomever, because it’s always harder to make big, momentous decisions when emotions are high, because literally, we lose some of our brain power and our ability to access higher reasoning when we’re under great stress or grief or worry, uncertainty. It literally diminishes our cognitive ability.

Stephanie McCullough (47:25):

So, I love her emphasis on starting now. Keep taking those steps. One domain she mentioned that I have to say I hadn’t really thought of, and we didn’t talk about it a lot, but transportation, and I guess her example is moving from the suburbs where she had to drive everywhere to a high-rise downtown where things are walkable and she can get places because it’s probably not safe to assume we can all drive until the day we pass away.

Stephanie McCullough (47:53):

We don’t necessarily want a whole bunch of 105-year-olds out there driving around the roads. So, what does that mean and how do we adjust our lives if it comes to the point where we shouldn’t be driving anymore?

Kevin Gaines (48:03):

Right. And another point is we’re talking about how making one step to address an issue within one domain can address other issues as well, such as going back with her solution to the transportation is moving into the city where she can walk.

Kevin Gaines (48:22):

Well, guess what? Now you’re helping your health. You’re getting the exercise and continuing with the example that she shared with us is, and you’re also going to meet other people. It’s going to give you the opportunity to expand your circle and stay more engaged in the world around you.

Stephanie McCullough (48:38):

Yeah. It’s definitely a rich area, and I’m so appreciative of Carol sharing her structure that she’s put together with us. We’ll link to all of her resources in the show notes. Thank you so much for being with us. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.

Kevin Gaines (48:53):

And it’s goodbye from her.

Stephanie McCullough (48:57):

Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends. Show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only Raymond Loewy through New Math in New York. See you next time.

Voiceover (49:12):

Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group, LLC, a registered Investment Advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.