Tabatha Jones (00:00):

It’s kind of interesting, but you’ll feel it. I say you’ll feel it, because what happens is I write my why. We’ll start with a why. So, why? Because I want to help people. “Alright, Ms. America, what’s next?” Why do you want to help people?

Tabatha Jones (00:16):

Well, I don’t want people to struggle. I don’t want people to feel like they’re not enough, or they can’t have whatever it is they want. Well, why? And keep going.

Tabatha Jones (00:26):

And it gets to that point of I want women to feel empowered and know that this next chapter is absolutely going to be their best chapter.

[Music Playing]

Stephanie McCullough (00:41):

Hey, dear listeners, we need to let you know that Kevin and Stephanie offer investment advice through Private Advisor Group, which is a federally registered investment advisor. The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations to any individual. To determine which strategies or investments may be suitable for you. Consult the appropriate qualified professional prior to making a decision. Now, let’s get on with the show.

Stephanie McCullough (01:16):

This is Take Back Retirement, the show that’s redefining retirement for women. Retirement is an old-fashioned cultural concept. We want to reclaim the word so you can make it your own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, financial planner and founder of Sofia Financial, where our mission is to reduce women’s money stress and empower them to make wise holistic decisions so they can get back to living their best lives.

Kevin Gaines is my longtime colleague with deep knowledge in the technical stuff: investments, taxes, retirement plan rules. He’s a little bit geeky and quantitative, I’m a little bit touchy-feely and qualitative. Together, through conversations and interviews, we aim to give you the information and motivation you need to move forward with confidence. We’re so glad you’re here.

 

Stephanie McCullough (02:05):

Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes office park in suburban Philadelphia this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial and American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (02:16):

Hello, Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (02:17):

Today, we’re talking to Tabatha Jones, the CEO of Empowered Leadership Coaching. The Corporate Escape Sherpa is the title she has given herself, which I love, and a leadership coach. She’s the author of Promotion Ready in 30 Days: the Woman’s Guide to Career Advancement. And she also hosts a podcast called Gen X Remix – Midlife, Laughs, and Next Acts, which I was privileged to be a guest on recently.

Stephanie McCullough (02:41):

She has spent over 20 years leading high performing technical teams in corporate America and made her transition at age 50. And now, she helps midlife women design profitable businesses, overcome limiting beliefs, and fully embrace their leadership potential.

Stephanie McCullough (02:56):

She also has built a couple cool custom AI tools she’s going to tell us about; Career Sherpa AI and Biz Builder AI. Let’s get into our conversation with Tabatha.

Stephanie McCullough (03:11):

Tabatha Jones, welcome to Take Back Retirement.

Tabatha Jones (03:14):

Thank you for having me here, Stephanie and Kevin, I’m so excited.

Stephanie McCullough (03:17):

Oh, I’m excited to talk to you too, because you really got kind of a unique take on what’s possible in this phase of life. Tell our audience what do you do now and kind of how you got to be doing this work.

Tabatha Jones (03:30):

Oh my gosh, so good. So, I call myself the Corporate Escape Sherpa, and what I do is help women generally in their fifties, sometimes late forties on up into their early sixties, but start building that business that they’ve always dreamed of running before they leave their corporate jobs.

Tabatha Jones (03:48):

I got here kind of an interesting way. I spent more than 30 years in corporate, and the last four or five-ish years of that, I realized that the part of my job I love the most was coaching. Helping people really see what’s next for them, believe what’s possible, and just stretch themselves in a way that they had not even thought possible so that they could get promoted or transition into a different career.

Tabatha Jones (04:14):

So, I started my coaching business on the side was really career focused. So, job search, executive coaching, and gosh, career advancement. Which were all things that I had learned and grown through as I was leading corporate technical teams for those years and climbing the ladder myself, learning some things the hard way, putting together some really strong methodologies.

Tabatha Jones (04:36):

Fast forward to 2019, and we went through a really huge reorg, and it was uncomfortable, is probably the nice way to say it. I just found that I wasn’t as aligned with the leadership team, the work I was asked to do, it just got to be a lot. I also had some health things going on and just realized I wasn’t really where I wanted to be.

Tabatha Jones (05:00):

So, I continued my coaching practice on the side and coming into 2020 thought, this is it. I’m going to make my corporate escape. I’m going to lean into this business full time. I’m going to do the thing.

Stephanie McCullough (05:11):

This is like January. Yeah, right? Oh, no.

Tabatha Jones (05:13):

Yeah. We all know what happened in March of 2020, and it was like, okay sister pump the brakes, that’s not happening. So, we pumped the brakes, decided that the best thing I could do for myself and my team was really help my leaders just get to their full potential, help them get their teams really structured the right way, and then put the plan off for when that little freeze lifted from the pandemic, three, four weeks later.

Tabatha Jones (05:38):

And I continued building my business. I had hired some business coaches, started learning, how do I find clients? How do I do all of these things, so that I still had my foot in that space and was continuing to grow. At the end of 2020, I decided 2021 is the year, no matter what happens, it’s my year.

Tabatha Jones (05:59):

So, I waited until March of 2021, and knew that my stock options were vested. I had done all the financial planning, I had saved a big nest egg, which most people say save about six to 12 months. I had saved about three years. I had the money, paid off all the bills, like done everything I needed to do. Gave my three weeks’ notice and jumped.

Tabatha Jones (06:22):

And it was a lot of fun. I jumped into really career coaching for midlife women, and in January of 2025, pivoted into the corporate escape side because I found that’s really where I was having the most fun. And let’s face it, most women in their fifties, we’re not ready to just throw in the towel and go find a hobby, we want to have an impact. So, it’s been a lot of fun and helping women do the same thing has been really rewarding.

Stephanie McCullough (06:48):

What do you think are the biggest kind of mindset barriers that women face? Especially when you get to maybe a point, like you’ve been doing this career for a couple decades, maybe you’re really good at it — is there some kind of questioning of the ability or even the desire to reinvent?

Tabatha Jones (07:08):

I’d say a lot of questioning. There’s a lot of fear. Well, maybe it’s too late, I can’t just go start something completely new, or I’ve never done this before, I don’t know how.

Tabatha Jones (07:17):

We forget we have a lifetime of experience. We have years and years, in my case, three decades of corporate experience dealing with people, emotional intelligence, all of those things that it takes to really start building a business. I’d say as Gen X women, we have a really bad habit of trying to figure it all out for ourselves, trying to do it all by ourselves. Don’t ask for help. That’s-

Stephanie McCullough (07:41):

Be self-sufficient.

Tabatha Jones (07:43):

Yeah. But the truth is, we need help. We need a community of supportive people around us who can really help us grow and get where we want to be faster. But I would say those are the main mindset things. It’s just so hard, it’s something different. I’ve also heard, and I had a person say this on my podcast when I was interviewing her once was, “Oh, I could have never built a business while working my full-time corporate job, I was just too busy.”

Tabatha Jones (08:08):

And I kind of smiled and I said, “Well, sister, I wasn’t really flipping pancakes in the middle of the afternoon. Like I was busting my butt.” I live on the West Coast, I was traveling from the West Coast to the East Coast constantly. I was working with people across all the time zones.

Tabatha Jones (08:24):

I had vendors in Ireland, so who knew if I was going to be up at two in the morning dealing with a problem. I still managed to find one hour a day that I could focus on my goal. Because if it’s not on your calendar, if it’s not something you are focused on doing, it just becomes a someday, which becomes a never, which becomes regret.

Stephanie McCullough (08:45):

Yes, one of your big things is like start building before you leave the job. Tell us a little bit more about why that’s so important.

Tabatha Jones (08:53):

It’s important for a couple of reasons. One, it gives you time to test. We have this vision of what we think it’s going to look like on the outside, or who we think we’re going to work with, but if we don’t test it before we go, there’s a long lead time between the leap and making money. And if you can start figuring all of that out and start making that money before you go, it makes a huge difference.

Tabatha Jones (09:20):

And a couple of things, so if someone is listening today and is thinking, well, what would I do with that hour? I say start with what I call my freedom framework. Start with your why, your what, your who, and you’re how, in that order. Why? What is your purpose? Why is this important to you? Why now? And ask yourself why at least five times. Get deep and figure this out because that is your guiding light.

Stephanie McCullough (09:45):

Because the first answer of why is really usually not the underlying, most important.

Tabatha Jones (09:50):

Absolutely. Then when you move into your, it’s why, and then your what. So, what do I really want to do? What skills do I want to use? What gifts do I have? What do people come to me for all the time when they need help or they’re struggling with something? Start mapping that out. Then you can go to your who. Who is it I want to work with?

Tabatha Jones (10:13):

I’ll tell you, in the beginning, I would work with anyone that came my way. And it was fun. I worked with a lot of college students, people working on internships, career transitions, really interesting career transitions, but so much fun.

Tabatha Jones (10:26):

And that’s where I realized, the midlife group of people is who I love working with, mostly women. I always say a few lucky men, but mostly women because we have very similar struggles. I’ve lived that similar journey, and we can move super-fast together, which makes it fun.

Tabatha Jones (10:45):

We’ve got your why, your what, your who, and then your how. A lot of new business owners go and build this big thing, or they go buy the storefront or do the thing before they figured out the first part. But you really can’t market or sell your services or even talk about it until you figured out this first three steps. Then your how can come in.

Tabatha Jones (11:06):

How is it one-on-one coaching? Are there courses? Are you offering virtual or in person? Are you doing workshops? Are you opening a brick and mortar? There’s no wrong answer, but spending that time to think about it and get very strategic, just gets that momentum going, and get you to a point where you can start making that money before you leap.

Tabatha Jones (11:28):

One of the things I shared before we started our interview is for people in their thirties who say, “I’m going to go dip my toe in entrepreneurship. Hold the phone corporate job, I’ll maybe be back.” They’ll go try their thing. It may work and be amazing. It may not. They go right back into a corporate job. When you’re in your mid-to-late fifties that’s a lot harder.

Tabatha Jones (11:49):

Life has changed a bit in the hiring space, and going back is harder. You may go back at a lower salary or with a lower title, but the job search right now for midlifers, it’s taking eight to 12 plus months just because it’s so competitive. So, I say build that freedom framework, start building your business, invest the time, and then take the leap when the time is right.

Kevin Gaines (12:14):

So, we’re just talking about the figuring out the why. How do you know you’ve gone deep enough in answering that question?

Tabatha Jones (12:24):

It’s kind of interesting, but you’ll feel it. I say you’ll feel it, because what happens is I write my why. We’ll start with a why. So, why? Because I want to help people. Alright Ms. America, what’s next? Why do you want to help people? Well, I don’t want people to struggle. I don’t want people to feel like they’re not enough or they can’t have whatever it is they want. Well, why? And keep going.

Tabatha Jones (12:50):

And it gets to that point of I want women to feel empowered and know that this next chapter is absolutely going to be their best chapter because that is what lights me up every day. I’m living my best chapter. I’m living walking proof of it every day. But I went deep enough into that why to realize oh, well that’s exactly what it is.

Tabatha Jones (13:10):

When you stay at that surface level, why (I joke about the Ms. America) it’s because I love people. It’s not enough to keep you going. And when you have a hard day and you look at your why, it’s either going to keep you going or it’s going to say, “Oh, maybe you should throw in the towel.” My why keeps me going because it’s very clear. So, that’s a really great question, Kevin. And I’d say just go deep. Five layers is the minimum.

Kevin Gaines (13:35):

I was going to say, how long did it take you to get to the ultimate why?

Stephanie McCullough (13:39):

Yeah. Is it like a five-minute thing, or can it take some time?

Tabatha Jones (13:42):

It can take some time. So, that’s where that one hour a day comes into play. I had circled my exit date on my calendar and read. Again, the first exit date was 2020, which we laugh and joke about because that didn’t happen. My second exit date was April 2nd, 2021. And as I was working toward that date, and I would experiment with a couple of things, I’d realized my why wasn’t deep enough. We’re not where we need to be. I don’t really want to work with everyone.

Tabatha Jones (14:09):

I love this type of person that’s not really filling my cup, that’s taking a lot of energy, and it feels like I’m pulling this person along, or literally carrying them along. When I go a little deeper and I get to that next spot, and I’m working with that group because that’s my why, and that’s who’s looking for me. I’m like, oh shoot, that lights me up every day, I can’t wait to get out of bed and go work with this client. I can’t wait till our call comes next week. I can’t wait to build out the rest of this plan with her and see her succeed.

Tabatha Jones (14:38):

So, it can take time. Some people, I think, are really quick because they’re clear. Most people aren’t as clear as they think they are.

Stephanie McCullough (14:45):

I think the why too is helpful when you’re out there telling your story and letting people know that, hey, this is what I’m doing now. Because when you are lit up, it’s kind of attractive to the kind of people that you want. Your vibe attracts your tribe kind of thing. But I think others can feel it too.

Tabatha Jones (15:04):

So, knowing that my why makes such a difference in the lives of other people, that’s what fires me up. I mean, your why doesn’t have to be always about other people. Maybe it’s about animals, maybe it’s about climate, maybe it’s about something. But if it fires you up that much and you could talk about it all day every day, you know you’re on the right path.

Stephanie McCullough (15:26):

Well, let’s talk a little bit about the what too, because I just spoke to a client yesterday. She had gotten laid off. She was doing some consulting, and she literally said like, “I’ve had this multiple times where I offer an insight to a client and they’re going, oh my gosh, how did you have that insight? That’s amazing.”

Stephanie McCullough (15:41):

And she’s like, that’s the most mundane insight I could have thought of. But the stuff that’s kind of her zone of genius and her natural ability, other people, they find it mind blowing. So, is there something in there about the what?

Tabatha Jones (15:54):

Absolutely. I would say that sometimes our what, we glaze over it or gloss over it because it’s so obvious, it’s so obvious. Well, it’s not obvious to most people. It’s obvious to you. It’s obvious to the person writing their what. And I actually have a client right now that I’m working with, and her thing was, well that … but everybody knows that. Everybody doesn’t know that, I didn’t know that until you told me that. And I’m pretty smart.

Tabatha Jones (16:24):

I didn’t know that until you told me that. And then I went and I did my own research, and you’re a hundred percent right. Why aren’t you telling more people this? And that has become actually her whole workshop foundation for her program. So, there are so many things that we just do naturally because it’s our gift but the whole world doesn’t have that same gift.

Stephanie McCullough (16:43):

And it could take maybe a little outside perspective to help you kind of zone in on that.

Tabatha Jones (16:48):

Exactly. And that’s why I’ve hired coaches. I’ve always had coaches or mentors in my life, just because that perspective or somebody being able to point out something that you may not be able to see. So, thinking about not just the corporate escape, but you mentioned career, and a lot of times in midlife, people want to make a pivot. I want less responsibility, I want to work for a company that makes an impact. I want to work for a company that does X. But I’ve been in this industry for so long, I can’t.

Stephanie McCullough (17:20):

Right, it’s the sunk costs.

Tabatha Jones (17:23):

Exactly. And that’s where someone like me can come in and zoom out. Let’s talk about your skills, let’s get those down, and then let’s translate them so they make sense to the next industry that you want to go to.

Tabatha Jones (17:36):

And yeah, absolutely. I mean, some of that stuff is so obvious. I was in telecom. So, I’m in telecom, I lead tech teams. I’ve done this for so many years, that’s what I do. The reality is I could do a million things, I just need to know what I want and really understand my purpose. So, yeah, that zooming out sometimes and having help in any aspect of life, really financial, as you said, any aspect, relationships, career, business, it’s important.

Stephanie McCullough (18:06):

So, one of the other things that I got excited about when you and I first talked is that you really kind of do dive into the numbers and the finances behind this idea, which it feels like maybe not everyone purporting to help folks start a business does. Talk more about that.

Tabatha Jones (18:22):

Yeah. I always joke, I’m terrible with math, but I’m great at money. It has to come at the forefront because a lot of fear in our lives revolves around money. It revolves around finance, it revolves around not understanding how things work. And what I know from experience, coming from a corporate job where I made a lot of money, is we throw money at a lot of things without even thinking about it or realizing it.

 

Tabatha Jones (18:46):

So, one of the first things I have people do when I work with them is sit down and look at their credit card statement and go and highlight all the things. I will tell you, there are so many recurring subscriptions that are just money leaks, things you’re not using. Oh my God, storage on Google. Do we need that? I don’t know.

Stephanie McCullough (19:04):

I’m sure, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Tabatha Jones (19:06):

I don’t either, weird, subscriptions. How many streaming services, do you even watch those streaming services?

Stephanie McCullough (19:13):

I had two Hulu accounts for a little while. Two, by mistake, because I couldn’t get into one when I want to watch something.

Tabatha Jones (19:19):

Yeah, I actually had a client that had three gym memberships. One was a gym close to her home, one was a gym close to the office she worked in two years ago, and one was just one that she signed up for because it was a low rate.

Tabatha Jones (19:32):

So, finding those money leaks is a really good way to start clearing out those funds. So, either funneling that money toward paying off some bills that might be lingering or funneling that money to a separate account so that you have that nest egg to build. So, that is a big piece of it.

Tabatha Jones (19:52):

I always joke, I don’t know why I have to tell the story. But I was a … I still am a White House Black Market girl. Sorry, Kevin, but it’s a women’s boutique. Cutest clothes ever, they last forever, most everything’s black and white, and then they get a little pop of color. It’s my favorite.

Tabatha Jones (20:06):

I had been a platinum shopper at White House Black Market. Like the shopper that walks in and they greet you by name and they already have the fitting room ready, that was me. I would achieve platinum membership by February, maybe March every single year, so we’re not going to talk about the dollars.

Tabatha Jones (20:22):

In 2020 when we stopped leaving our house, I lost my status and I almost cried. But then as I’m looking at my own financial things, getting ready to make my leap, I was like well, that’s a huge money suck. Do I really need that many pants? Actually, nobody ever sees my pants anymore. Nobody needs that many pairs of pants.

Tabatha Jones (20:39):

So, just simple things that are just habits of shopping. Now, I’m not saying go buy all your clothes everywhere else. If you love White House Black Market, I do. I go buy one or two things maybe every four to six months. I’m not a platinum shopper anymore. I’m not greeted by name. It’s fine. I’ve gotten over it, my ego is healing.

Tabatha Jones (21:00):

We have so many things that we just drop money on without thinking. But then meeting with that financial advisor, what does my retirement look like? What does it look like if I don’t make any money for the next six months? What does it look like if I shift from making 250,000 a year to 50,000 a year? What kind of tax thing should I be thinking about? These give that additional bit of security and stability.

Tabatha Jones (21:26):

The financial piece is huge. I also will go all the way into figuring out how much your programs need to be to make that or achieve that financial goal that you’ve set for yourself. I have a client whose pricing is way too low. And when I took her through this spreadsheet of mine and showed her the math, because neither one of us likes math, but we both like money.

Tabatha Jones (21:48):

I said, “This tells me you need 100 clients per month to achieve your bare minimum. That price is too low. So, have you thought about this?” And so, really looking at that packaging and changing things around.

Kevin Gaines (22:02):

For the record as a Gen Xer, I’m very familiar. I still vaguely remember all the mall stores. So, I do remember

Tabatha Jones (22:10):

White House Black Market.

Kevin Gaines (22:12):

White House Black Market, shout out the Owings Mills Mall, 1986. Anyway, we were starting this conversation, and you were talking about how you made the jump. You said, well, instead of just having six to 12 months saved up as a reserve, I had three years. Was that three years intentional or was it a culmination of, well, since I’m stuck an extra year before I made the jump, it just kind of accidentally fell into that amount?

Tabatha Jones (22:41):

A couple things I’ll say. One, I am married, so I have a second income in my house, which does make a big difference that I know not everyone has that luxury. Convenience might be a questionable word. No, I’m kidding − luxury. Absolutely, knowing that.

Tabatha Jones (22:55):

But what I did Kevin is, early on, before I even thought about leaving, I was thinking about retirement and thinking about debt. I am not a big fan of carrying a lot of debt.

Tabatha Jones (23:09):

So, as I was clearing out those revenue leaks and gaps and all those beautiful extra streaming services, I was paying off bills. So, I had one car payment left, so I paid that car off. Then I funneled the money to my house payment. And when the car is paid off, all that extra money then went toward the house.

Tabatha Jones (23:29):

So, as I was preparing, I was able to get the house paid off thinking more again about retirement. Where else do we have expenses in our house? Oh, electricity. Well, what does it cost to get solar? What would solar make? And how would solar improve my life?

Tabatha Jones (23:45):

So, oh, well when I get this bonus, I’m going to pay to put solar in my house and get that done. Oh, and then water. Okay, well, do we really need that much lawn on our property? Nope. You know what, let’s see what it costs to put in turf. There’s no more fertilizer, no more landscaping, no more this, no more that.

Tabatha Jones (24:00):

So, just finding ways, and those were big purchases, but as I look at them now, I don’t really have much of an electricity bill. My water bill was cut in half.

Tabatha Jones (24:11):

These types of things allow me to live at a much lower cost of living. But also, it took away that fear of money. Well, what if I don’t have enough money to make this mortgage payment? Or what if I don’t have enough money to pay these three car payments?

Tabatha Jones (24:24):

That’s never crossing my mind because I was able to save and then the extra money, stuff that into an account and make sure that I had money to invest in coaching, money to invest in tools, money to invest in an admin that helps me run my business.

Tabatha Jones (24:39):

So, I would say financially, I was very strategic and in a really great position. Again, I was making a great salary. Most corporate women and men are making a pretty great salary, but sometimes we live with a higher expense rate than necessary.

Tabatha Jones (24:56):

I’m trying to say that as nicely as possible because I don’t want anyone to feel shame for it because you shouldn’t. You’re living your life, you do what you want to do. If you want to drive that kind of car, do it, but also think about the long term and what that’s going to look like when you’re in your fifties. Do I still want a car payment when I’m 70? Do I still want a house payment when I’m 70? I really don’t.

Stephanie McCullough (25:15):

And you did those things while you had that high income. I think that’s the benefit of thinking about it while you’ve still got the higher guaranteed salary every other week or whatever it is, so that you can take on those things.

Stephanie McCullough (25:30):

And also, we’ve had these conversations with clients before: “Oh, I think I might want to retire in a few years or make this change and take a pay cut.” “Alright, well why don’t you practice on living now on what you would be making then?”

Stephanie McCullough (25:44):

It’s not a cliff, it’s usually a ramp down., Like, “)h, I’ll cut this and then I’ll make this adjustment” and see how that feels ahead of time while you still have the option. It’s not required that you live on this lower amount. I think that’s really smart to plant those seeds while you’ve still got the paycheck.

Tabatha Jones (26:04):

Exactly. I just say let your corporate job finance your business dream

Tabatha Jones (26:09):

And then one last thing I’ll say is life always costs more than we think it’s going to cost. Like what’s the bare bones minimum that I need to live? I’m like, okay, $7,000 a month. That sounds good.

Tabatha Jones (26:20):

Well then guess what? Puppy pants here, we got some new bark, it sprouted some mushrooms. Guess who had almost a $2,000 vet bill unexpectedly, which completely shifts it. Or a car breaks down and you’ve got to have a repair done, or whatever it is, an injury and someone can’t work.

Tabatha Jones (26:37):

This economy and all the things being fluctuated, some people are not investing in their own development or their growth or their businesses right now. So, there might be some slow months. But knowing that you’re prepared for that, it just takes that pressure off so much.

Stephanie McCullough (26:52):

Well, I appreciate that you in your capacity are helping your clients look at the money. Because what we often see is that there’s built up kind of anxiety around money. There’s kind of shame. Oh my gosh, I should have more, I should have done this, I can’t believe I did that. And therefore, there’s this willingness to avoid looking at things.

Stephanie McCullough (27:12):

It’s kind of, if I close my eyes, it’s not really happening and it feels so burdensome to actually crunch the numbers when the numbers are just little pieces of ink on a page. The numbers aren’t judging you. All the judgment comes from in here, but I think it’s helpful to have someone hold your hand when you’re doing it.

Tabatha Jones (27:32):

Yeah, absolutely agree with that. And having a strong connection of financial advisors and people that I can refer clients to when they are stuck, or they don’t know who to talk to, is so helpful. And I love adding additional advisors to my network because I only go so far with my lessons.

Tabatha Jones (27:50):

I’m not a tax professional, I’m not a financial professional. This is what I know, and these are who you can talk to, to get more information, but it has to be a big part of it. And there is nothing worse, I don’t think, than that feeling of failure because of money.

Stephanie McCullough (28:05):

Oh yeah.

Tabatha Jones (28:07):

It’s not failure because money didn’t come in here. It’s not that. It’s sometimes things work out differently than you expect. So, having that financial runway, it’s critical. It’s something that people should talk to their financial advisor, someone who is truly in that financial space. My advice is always, you want to leap with as little debt as possible. Take it to your financial advisor. It makes a huge difference.

Tabatha Jones (28:33):

And your whole mindset will shift around money. I mean, a lot of the corporate employee, corporate leaders’ identity is money. Money and title that you’ve worked your butt off for. That was the thing.

Stephanie McCullough (28:46):

Yeah, the status and the numbers.

Tabatha Jones (28:48):

Absolutely. And then when you get there and the numbers start looking a little different, you’re like, “Oh, well, what did I do?” Oh my gosh. Well, sometimes you have to redefine your meaning of success. And at the end of the day, it’s not all about money. Money is fantastic, I love money. Don’t be confused universe.

Tabatha Jones (29:06):

But also, it doesn’t make you who you are. It doesn’t make one person better than another person. It just is that piece of life that gives you that security and stability that is helpful in the entrepreneurial space and pre-retirement space.

Stephanie McCullough (29:21):

It’s just a tool, and we live in a world where you need it to get the things you want because we don’t live on a little house in the prairie, and we can’t go out and chop down trees to build our own house and build a wagon, because that’s not the reality at the moment.

Stephanie McCullough (29:34):

Tabatha, do you have a story or two you could share with us of a client who made the leap, started something interesting? Obviously anonymous, but I think that might be interesting for the listeners to hear something, hear a real story.

Tabatha Jones (29:47):

Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh. So, a client of mine who was offered an early retirement package about three years ago, and she was so excited, but she couldn’t take it because she hadn’t started building, and she hadn’t started creating the financial runway. And she shares this is one of the most crushing times because she wasn’t ready.

Tabatha Jones (30:13):

So, we started building. She would call me and say, “Hey, do you have time for lunch? I want to talk about this.” And I’m like, “Let’s do it. Let’s talk.” And so, we started building, and she was able to build her business, get it going to a place that she wanted it to be, started thriving. It’s an area she is an expert in. She loves, absolutely loves what she does.

Stephanie McCullough (30:34):

Can you tell us just generally what kind of work she’s doing?

Tabatha Jones (30:37):

Yeah, it’s travel. So, it’s a travel agency that she built. She started working with another agency to really learn the ropes, to figure things out, to get everything organized, to understand what do I need? What are the tools? How do I build this agency? How do we bring these people on?

Tabatha Jones (30:53):

We would work occasionally on systems and things like that that needed to be put into place. She was offered the package again in December, and she was able to say, “Hell, yes.” And she leaped. And as she took that leap, we got together again to kind of talk through, like, “How are you feeling? What’s going on?” The fear, “Oh, my gosh, I’ve been at this place for so long and this, and I’ve achieved this and I’ve achieved that, but here we are.”

Tabatha Jones (31:19):

And I’m like, “Oh my gosh, okay, let’s do it.” So, really interesting sitting down with her, helping her as she’s building this business and looking at different angles, sat down with her because she said, “I just am not where I thought I would be. I’m getting nervous, my package is running out. What should I be thinking about?” And I said, “Well, first of all, we should be thinking about what you’ve achieved in the only six months that it has been since you left your corporate job.”

Tabatha Jones (31:46):

So, we sat down and we mapped out all of the milestones, starting with where we were at, all the way back. So, financial milestones, client milestones, how she’s built her agency, different goals that she had set. So, most people don’t come this far in six months.

Tabatha Jones (32:02):

So, building that before leaving corporate gave you the leverage. It gave you the opportunity to go through your why, what, who, and how. You know who you’re working with, you know your purpose. You know that you want to bring these things into the world. You’re exactly where you’re supposed to be.

Tabatha Jones (32:18):

And so, she really, interestingly ended up building two additional businesses along the way, which has been wild. And just watching her and supporting her and taking that time to celebrate with her as she achieves these milestones has been such a gift to me. But again, knowing that it’s never too late, she’s in her early sixties.

Tabatha Jones (32:39):

It is never too late to start something new and to put your energy into something that you’ve loved your whole life, but you’ve never had time to focus on.

Stephanie McCullough (32:48):

But I love your point about celebrating the wins because I think when we’re in it, we’re the trenches and building and building, and just in the day to day, you lose again, the zooming out. You lose that perspective of progress. I’ve had times with clients where I’ve had to remind them, “Remember where you were two years ago? Let’s take some time to appreciate everything you have done.”

Stephanie McCullough (33:10):

Because especially I think when you’re an entrepreneur and you’re grinding away and there’s not as much separation — I mean, I know when you’re a corporate executive, there’s not much separation and personal life either. But when it’s your business, there’s really no quitting time. You could be working every waking moment. So, it’s harder to see where you’ve come.

Tabatha Jones (33:31):

It is. And one of my other clients that I work with, she actually lives around the corner. I have clients all over the country, but I’ve got a few that are right in my backyard. And I had sent her a text. I said, “Hey, I’m going to go do this walk with trolls.” So, these big troll statues out here in Northern California, they’re really cool, and I’d been wanting to go. I was like, “Do you want to come?”

Tabatha Jones (33:50):

And she was talking about that frustration she was feeling, and I was like, “Have you gotten outside to play lately? I feel like you tell other people to do this. When’s the last time you went outside and played?” And so, she’s like, “You’re right.” And we did. We went out and we had a really great day. And then she was able to get back and just refocus and refill that whole energy shift. Because to your point, it’s not easy.

Kevin Gaines (34:13):

So, what it sounds like you’re saying is (and I know this and Stephanie as well as business owners) there’s always another battle to fight or another worry to think about or stress.

Stephanie McCullough (34:25):

Or a new opportunity or thing to opt out of.

Kevin Gaines (34:27):

Or opportunity or something, which is why it’s … I would imagine it’s so hard to take a breath to step back. Again, you’re great with helping people start up this transition, this new project, this new business. But sticking with a coach sounds like that’s something else where you’re important to say, “Hey, take a breath.”

Tabatha Jones (34:52):

Absolutely. I’d say that it’s important. And I always say I’m more strategy than anything. So, I probably am more consultant than coach, but my coaching side comes in with that confidence building, with that saying, “Let’s stop, let’s celebrate.”

Tabatha Jones (35:10):

I call myself the Sherpa because when you think about the Sherpas and the Himalayas, they map out the trail, they guide you up the trail. When you’re tired, they’ll sit down, sit by the side of the road with you and just wait until you’re ready to go again. Sometimes they might pick up your load and carry some of it with them.

Tabatha Jones (35:26):

And that’s absolutely how I believe in working with my clients. And I always laugh, a weird side effect of becoming my client is you almost always end up becoming my friend. And it’s because we’ve been on this journey that not many other people will understand.

Tabatha Jones (35:41):

And coming from corporate into entrepreneurship, most of my network was in the corporate world, and they couldn’t understand it. I can tell you how many people asked me if I was crazy. What are you thinking?

Tabatha Jones (35:56):

You’ll have to rebuild your network. And I can also help with that piece by being a really great connector and bringing them to people like yourselves who are financial advisors, bringing them to people who can help them understand different aspects of entrepreneurship and different journeys and different ways of doing things.

Tabatha Jones (36:13):

There’s always more than one right way to do things. But that coaching piece, you should always have coaches. And even if it’s not in the budget, maybe switch to a mentor for a little bit, and then come back. But know that there’s always people you can rely on. It’s always okay to ask for help, and you’ll go further faster with that support. So, that’s why I believe coaching is important.

Stephanie McCullough (36:40):

So, Tabatha, thank you so much for being with us. If people who are listening want to follow you, want to learn more about what you’re doing, where can they find you? And also, you got some cool new things out there. So, tell us.

Tabatha Jones (36:51):

Oh my gosh. So, the easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn. I’m Tabatha with all As. Some people spell it wrong with an I in the middle. I’m all As. So, absolutely connect with me on LinkedIn. I share a lot of information and just thought leadership out there.

Tabatha Jones (37:05):

My website is corporateescapesherpa.com if you want to learn a bit more about programs and things that I offer. And then you mentioned cool tools. I did share that I led technical teams. I do geek out a little bit now and then, and had a really rough day one day and decided just going to go sit in the pool, and ended up brainstorming an AI tool.

Tabatha Jones (37:27):

So, I have built what I call the Freedom Builder system, and it includes a custom AI, which is like having five sherpas in your pocket, 24/7, where you can ask questions and get the type of guidance that I share, and also get access to a community of business builders like yourselves who are there to support. And we do live coaching calls and all that fun stuff.

Tabatha Jones (37:50):

So, happy to share more information on that, and Stephanie and Kevin will share the link so we can pop it in the show notes.

[Music Playing]

Stephanie McCullough (37:55):

Perfect. Awesome. Thanks again, Tabatha. We appreciate your sharing your own experience and your wisdom with us.

Tabatha Jones (38:02):

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.

Kevin Gaines (38:10):

Alright, Stephanie, just for your benefit, I’m going to say that was a lot to unpack there.

Stephanie McCullough (38:16):

Oh, my goodness. We need to give Kevin a new line people. Will you please write to us and give Kevin suggestions for a new line.

Kevin Gaines (38:24):

But seriously, great conversation. What I really liked was the time we spent discussing why, because we’ve experienced ourselves, Stephanie, that you’re going to have good days, you’re going to have bad days, you’re going to be busy, you’re going to be slow.

Kevin Gaines (38:44):

But if you know why you’re doing what you’re doing or why you want to do it, it can help get you through the rough patches. But it also helps keep you focused

Stephanie McCullough (38:56):

But the other thing that I’ve seen is friends of mine, and even myself, quite honestly, I love doing what I’m doing. I hate going out and selling myself or pitching my services to people.

Kevin Gaines (39:07):

You and me both.

Stephanie McCullough (39:08):

But when you’re super clear on the why, you focus on that and you talk about that, and the importance of really your mission out in the world, it makes it easier. You’re not saying, “I’m the greatest, come work with me. Give me money.” You’re saying, “It’s so important to me to …” fill in the blank for your why.

Stephanie McCullough (39:27):

And I really think that makes business development and sales easier. But it also, it makes the conversation more comfortable, and it attracts the people who agree and are also lit up by your same why.

Kevin Gaines (39:41):

Well, I mean, and also, this isn’t why you do it, but it’s a benefit of, at least for me, it makes it feel less like I’m doing a sales pitch and more just talking with people.

Stephanie McCullough (39:54):

Yes, exactly.

Kevin Gaines (39:55):

About how I can help their situation or why I care.

Stephanie McCullough (40:00):

Yeah, what your why is. And I love her focus on just take an hour a day. We can find an hour a day, and you start with a blank notebook and start writing these things out. Why do you want to do this? And quite honestly, in this world we’re living in where people, let’s face it, our age and older can get laid off, and it’s really hard to find the next job.

Stephanie McCullough (40:19):

It doesn’t hurt to start doing that why, what, who, how exercise, even if it’s not your fondest goal to go start your own business. Because I know plenty of people who’ve been forced to do that by corporate layoffs. So, kind of laying the groundwork and having a thought, “Well, gosh, if I were going to start a business, why would I want to do it? And who would I want to work with?” And those kinds of things. It’s not bad to just kind of have those thoughts in your back pocket.

Kevin Gaines (40:50):

But what was your big takeaway, Stephanie?

Stephanie McCullough (40:53):

Okay, I loved her line, “I’m terrible at math, but I’m great at money.” I’m just going to keep that and hand it out to so many people because I meet women all the time who say, “I could never do what you do. I’m bad at math.” I’m like math is the least little part of this job and of diving into money conversations with people.”

Stephanie McCullough (41:11):

So, no more math excuse, people. You got to face the money, and we can love being good with money and not worry about the math. We got computers, we got calculators on our phones.

Kevin Gaines (41:21):

We got calculators, we got spreadsheets.

Stephanie McCullough (41:23):

For goodness sakes.

Stephanie McCullough (41:24):

And of course, I love her focus on let’s dive in people, we got to look at the numbers. Let’s look where the money is going, look at the cash flow. Highlight the things on your statement — that feels really uncomfortable for a lot of people. And I will tell you, we’ve seen it again and again. It’s not fun to do, but it’s so great to have done. When you’re on the other end of doing it and you get those insights, you just feel more empowered.

Kevin Gaines (41:47):

Well, and also, I think it helps you control how you do business or the business you take on. Because if you don’t know your numbers, and again, we see it all the time, we do it ourselves — we start panicking, “Oh, I need more revenue. I need to have more income.” But if you don’t know the numbers, frankly, do you?

Stephanie McCullough (42:07):

You don’t really know.

Kevin Gaines (42:08):

Maybe yes, maybe no, but you don’t know. And we didn’t touch on it enough, but I know it’s a big thing with you: pricing.

Stephanie McCullough (42:15):

Yes.

Kevin Gaines (42:16):

Your numbers help you formulate your pricing.

Stephanie McCullough (42:18):

Yeah, maybe avoid the underpricing that so many women fall into. I think so many entrepreneurs, but women especially. And when it’s an intangible service you’re providing, the pricing’s even harder, I think.

[Music Playing]

Stephanie McCullough (42:30):

Dear listeners, we hope you found this interesting and useful. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me-

Kevin Gaines (42:36):

And it’s goodbye from her.

Stephanie McCullough (42:39):

Be sure to subscribe to the show, and please share it with your friends. Show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only Raymond Loewy through New Math in New York. See you next time.

Voiceover (42:54):

Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group, LLC, a registered Investment Advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.