Stephanie McCullough (00:06):

This is Take Back Retirement, the show that’s redefining retirement for women. Retirement is an old-fashioned cultural concept. We want to reclaim the word so you can make it your own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, financial planner and founder of Sofia Financial, where our mission is to reduce women’s money stress and empower them to make wise holistic decisions so they can get back to living their best lives.

Stephanie McCullough (00:30):

Kevin Gaines is my longtime colleague with deep expertise in the technical stuff: investments, taxes, retirement plan rules. He’s a little bit nerdy and quantitative, I’m a little bit touchy-feely and qualitative. Together, through conversations and interviews, we aim to give you the information and motivation you need to move forward with confidence. We’re so glad you’re here.

Stephanie McCullough (00:55):

Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial, an American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (01:06):

Hello Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (01:07):

Today we have another great interview. Of course, we always think they’re great, but our guest today is Dara Goldberg. And Dara is quite the pioneer in my mind. She’s a writer, a speaker, and pro-age advocate. She founded something called the Endless Beauty Collective, which she’ll talk about in the interview, as well as her great website, lovinmidlife.com.

Stephanie McCullough (01:32):

She is a founding contributor of Pro-Age Woman Magazine and has also been published in HuffPost and Forbes and the Kuel Life platform.

Stephanie McCullough (01:42):

She lives in the Philadelphia area with two daughters, two cats, one husband, and a super silly dog named Chumley. And we know you’re going to love her as much as we do. Here’s our conversation with Dara.

Stephanie McCullough (01:57):

Dara Goldberg, welcome to Take Back Retirement.

Dara Goldberg (02:01):

Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Stephanie McCullough (02:04):

I’m so excited to have this conversation because you and I have known each other kind of on and off for a bunch of years and we’ve always had such — those conversations where I’m like, “Yes, yes, yes.” Because we see, I think people going through a similar phase of life and we maybe take it from different angles, but we’ve had similar observations. And what I would love is if you could start out kind of telling your own story of kind of this transition of life.

Dara Goldberg (02:33):

I would love it. And thank you.

Dara Goldberg (02:35):

So, I think I’ll take it back to, I started my career in my early 20s, as a management consultant and a partner in a firm that I helped build that worked only with non-profit organizations. So, even though we were a for-profit, we were working only with non-profits and philanthropies. And it was so meaningful for 20 years. I did it, loved it, I loved my colleagues, all of it. And it was a stable lifestyle, all that.

Dara Goldberg (03:11):

And then when I hit my early 40s, it wasn’t lighting me up. I wasn’t motivated to do the work. I felt like my work ethic was going. I felt like I was literally losing my brain like it was shot. And I was thinking, it must be midlife, it must be menopause, all that. And well, certainly those things play into it.

Dara Goldberg (03:42):

After kind of beating myself up for a while and then talking to people and getting some help, I realized that it wasn’t what society calls a midlife crisis. Society wants us to think we’re falling apart, and we should keep it on the down low and just persevere.

Dara Goldberg (04:04):

And while the emotions are high, and it is scary, I treat, and I encourage all women to treat the emotions as the data that are saying you’re going through a growth spurt, a midlife growth spurt. And it is that. Growth is not, or milestones are not reserved for kids. We’re just told that that’s the case.

Dara Goldberg (04:36):

So, when I shifted the way I could see it and really got mad, I mean, I’ll just say it that way and was like, no, I’m going to do what a lot of people didn’t think was wise and pivot. And I didn’t pivot, until I was, call it close to 44, 45. And it was at that point, I wasn’t retiring, but I needed to shift how I made money and how I was giving to the world.

Dara Goldberg (05:14):

And for so many of us, I think when that happens, there’s no question it’s scary, but we think we need to just say, “Okay, so we’ll be miserable and keep going.” And what I would say is figure out what lights you up now. Figure out how to transfer the skills and talents you’ve accumulated, your natural talents. And know that it’s natural to want to … it’s who you are now.

Dara Goldberg (05:51):

And just to go on one more minute, I think what’s so hard about that growth spurt period is you’re no longer who you were, but you’re not yet who you’re becoming. So, it’s that in-between of discomfort, right?

Stephanie McCullough (06:08):

Yeah. I mean, when you were saying the growth spurt, that can be super uncomfortable. You think about even kids going through growing pains, literally parts of your body can ache when they’re growing, and you get kind of that awkward phase. And I love that idea of the in-between. But how do you get okay with the uncertainty and the in-between part?

Dara Goldberg (06:30):

That’s a great question and it’s not easy, but it really is giving yourself permission to not know. Because adding anxiety to the discomfort only makes it worse. So, while we can’t necessarily dismiss the discomfort, we can manage the anxiety around it. And I’m not a therapist, but just kind of conceptually I think that makes sense.

Dara Goldberg (07:03):

And to really treat it as a time to do the deep dive about not who you were, but figuring out who you are now. So, it’s how do I want to show up. Who do I want to be? What matters to me now?

Dara Goldberg (07:20):

And I think for a lot of us, it’s this sense of I need to give back to the world and feel that more strongly than ever. I’ve always had that, and I’ve always tried to shape a career around that. But I’m 57 now and I still want and need to make money, but how I choose to do that is totally different.

Dara Goldberg (07:53):

So, the length of time is different for all of us, but where I went is — and maybe this is a good example, by the way, I love your comparison to kids having literal growing pains. That’s a great analogy.

Dara Goldberg (08:11):

But I took that frustration with society having stereotypes and false assumptions about women in midlife and beyond and said, I need to create a movement that dispels those. And I didn’t know where it was going to land, but I knew I needed to do it.

Dara Goldberg (08:33):

And from then there, and this is another piece, I think it’s not a, oh, now I’ve arrived, I’m doing something different. It’s an organic, evolving process. And we’re taught that you go from here to there and then you must be happy and call it a day.

Dara Goldberg (08:55):

And I’m acting like it’s easy. It’s so not. I mean, oh my goodness, if you had seen kind of me go through it, you’d think I was more human.

Dara Goldberg (09:09):

But then from creating this Lovin’ Midlife movement for women is what I called it, I realized that I was building that community of women and activating all of us to fight the biases.

Dara Goldberg (09:24):

But what I was hearing within my community is such frustration and pain from the beauty industry and how the beauty industry is selling us, literally selling to us and us on the idea that beauty is reserved for youth. And the minute the clock starts ticking, our beauty has an expiration date. So, that’s how I now am doing Endless Beauty Collective.

Stephanie McCullough (10:01):

I love it. So, Dara, you mentioned the biases and kind of these cultural messages that women get around midlife. Let’s just be blatant about it. What are they? I think we know, but let’s call them out.

Dara Goldberg (10:14):

Right. So, I think the one I keep mentioning is that our beauty declines with age and comments like, “Oh my gosh, she looks great for her age.” She looks great, period. Or “How does she stay looking so young?”

Stephanie McCullough (10:33):

Yeah.

Dara Goldberg (10:36):

So, there’s that, one. And these messages are ingrained in us from an early age. So, we’re all “victims” of it.

Dara Goldberg (10:48):

I think another one is what I’ve talked about that when we experience a shift in what lights us up, it’s a midlife crisis and we’re falling apart. Whereas I truly believe it’s a growth spurt.

Dara Goldberg (11:03):

And then there’s also the whole connotation that even the definition of aging, if you look it up, it’s the decay and decline of your physical and mental capabilities and capacities. I’m paraphrasing.

Stephanie McCullough (11:20):

Seriously?

Dara Goldberg (11:22):

Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (11:23):

Not just, oh, you’re another day older.

Dara Goldberg (11:25):

Right. No.

Stephanie McCullough (11:26):

Wow.

Dara Goldberg (11:26):

And aging, we are supposed to view aging as a privilege, but we’re shamed for showing visible signs of it.

Stephanie McCullough (11:35):

Yes.

Dara Goldberg (11:36):

Right?

Stephanie McCullough (11:37):

Yes.

Dara Goldberg (11:37):

How absurd. And because we live in a society where outward beauty equates to worth and value, we automatically feel that our value’s going down and our worth. And we see that our visibility is going down.

Dara Goldberg (11:59):

And during COVID (I mean, I choose to dye my hair), there was this whole silver hair, gray hair movement. And I do think that’s helped because you look at all these women and oh my gosh, they’re stunning. And it normalizes and actually gives power to gray hair. There’s no crone in the house, right?

Stephanie McCullough (12:24):

Right. My mother’s finally now her natural hair color after like, I don’t know how many years. She started dyeing her hair when she was in her 20s, I think. She had no idea what her natural hair color was. And during pandemic lockdown, she felt comfortable letting it all grow out.

Dara Goldberg (12:38):

See, see, to each their own.

Stephanie McCullough (12:40):

Yeah.

Dara Goldberg (12:41):

I love it.

Kevin Gaines (12:42):

So, in trying to figure out, or realizing that you’re evolving, how do you get there or how have people that you’ve in your group, have they been — I don’t want to say they’re necessarily confused, but dismiss their own evolution by saying, “Oh, I’ve got so many other things going on in my life.” Because we’re talking women in their 40s, 50s, kids are going to college. They may have been having the same career for 30 years, starting to get bored with that. And-

Stephanie McCullough (13:15):

Aging parents sometimes.

Kevin Gaines (13:16):

Aging parents. Exactly. All of these things. Been living in the same house for 30, 40 years maybe. Do a lot of women say, “Oh, it’s all that,” without realizing, “Hey, I’m just like I was in my teens. I’m now changing my attitude and outlook.”

Dara Goldberg (13:36):

I love the way you said it. I love your question. I think you’re absolutely right that so many of us do exactly what you just said, which is, I’m so tired, I’ve been giving of myself to everything else, it must be that. And it is that, and not but, and it’s that the need, the desire, the sense of I deserve this feeling is growing by leaps and bounds.

Dara Goldberg (14:13):

So, there is this sense of, I’ve been giving it to everyone else and taking care of all this stuff for so long and I’m frustrated and tired. And while it might have been endurable, and even have felt good for a long time, I do think we hit that point where it’s not selfish, it’s self-care. And I know that’s a clichéd term, but it’s really, I matter.

Dara Goldberg (14:51):

I call it the Dara package. And that I need to be able to feel good about it. I need to tend to it. And I don’t need to just drop everything you described, but if I’m not taking care of and serving myself, then again, it may sound cliché, but I’m not doing a good job and really able to invest in all those other things.

Dara Goldberg (15:18):

But I think you also make a great point, which is a lot of us don’t have the luxury or the space mentally or physically or logistically to take that time and give ourselves that grace. So, it’s tough. It really is.

Stephanie McCullough (15:37):

And I think your point about being comfortable in the in-between is great because maybe I don’t have time this month to spend time thinking about it. But would you say it’s like the noticing of those little feelings like, huh, something’s up. Something’s up. Maybe I should try to dedicate a little time to some introspection and reflection and talking with a good friend or something, but I can’t do it this month.

Dara Goldberg (15:59):

Yeah. And you can do it in teeny, teeny bites. And I do think it’s so important to talk to the people who already know you because they can be seeing the changes and they can feed back to you what they’re seeing in a way that you can’t necessarily see everything on your own.

Dara Goldberg (16:24):

And I’m a big fan of using the word permission because there’s such a sense of freedom with that word. And it’s giving yourself permission or the freedom to say, “I need this. It’s time. I get to do this.” And it’s that, but there’s everything else to do. It’s not a but. It’s an and both.

Dara Goldberg (16:55):

And I think, we live in a world of everything’s a but or an either-or, and it’s not. It’s, I finally recognize that I can give what I want to give, and I need to give. But if I’m not giving myself permission to both take and give to myself, take from others and give to myself, it’s just not going to work anymore.

Stephanie McCullough (17:27):

And that’s such a hard one because I feel like we get this message, especially those of us who have kids, like your whole purpose of life is to take care of these little creatures and heaven forbid you take a shower even or take a moment to indulge in something that’s not serving, serving, serving. I don’t know, I don’t feel like anyone ever told me that, but that’s the message that my subconscious took up very readily.

Dara Goldberg (17:55):

Well, and I think, to talk about the retirement piece, I saw it with my father, I’ve seen it with others where it’s this sense of, okay, I’m done. Or I’ve turned off a switch and that’s why with what I talk about (and my focus is women), it’s pivoting, it truly is, and it’s pivoting to what else do you want to do now?

Dara Goldberg (18:24):

And whether it’s making money or not is okay. It’s who are you now and what do you want to be doing. How do you want to be giving to the world and to yourself, right?

Stephanie McCullough (18:35):

Yeah.

Dara Goldberg (18:37):

And that’s what I love about what you guys are doing is really shifting not just the definition of the word, the whole mindset around it, right?

Stephanie McCullough (18:49):

Yeah, yeah. Trying.

Kevin Gaines (18:52):

I mean, and that’s the reason it’s important to have you and people like you on who are having the same conversations with people, just coming from a different direction.

Kevin Gaines (19:05):

So, to that, when you’re having conversations with your groups about these things, how much of the resistance to make change or embrace the change is internal versus outside? It’s like, oh no, my husband, my kids, my career, my da da da, all this outside stuff won’t let me pivot. Or it’s like, I’m not comfortable pivoting.

Dara Goldberg (19:33):

That’s a great question. What I hear and literally see, kind of, and feel viscerally when I’m talking to women and as part of this community I’ve built is they know it, they feel it. And it’s like they can’t put it back. Once it’s realized there’s no ignoring it anymore.

Dara Goldberg (20:03):

And so, yes, there’s the challenges of where do I find the literal and figurative space to focus on myself. But it’s amazing the sense of autonomy and power that the women I speak with, and I know you’re like this Stephanie, where it’s not the choice. There is a choice. And I always say find the choices. It is a choice to not focus on yourself or not really tune in to where your needs aren’t being met. But if you don’t do it, it’s still sitting there.

Dara Goldberg (20:45):

And I do think, so much of it doesn’t need to mean logistical changes or major life changes. So much of it is how relationships certainly shift. There’s those kind of shifts and there’s, it’s kind of the micro level. What do I really do? Make time for exercise. Or I’ve always hated cooking, I’m not going to do as much or I’m not going to do it.

Dara Goldberg (21:22):

I’m just trying to come up with like little pieces that go a long way because it’s this sense of autonomy and I’m doing it for me.

Stephanie McCullough (21:35):

Right. Agency, right?

Dara Goldberg (21:36):

Yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (21:36):

Having some kind of control-

Dara Goldberg (21:38):

Yeah, agency.

Stephanie McCullough (21:40):

Even if over a tiny bit.

Dara Goldberg (21:41):

Yep.

Stephanie McCullough (21:42):

And I feel like some of the pushback that might happen, whether internally or externally, is this idea that it’s selfish to focus on your own needs and goals. And I can tell from your facial expression, you don’t appreciate that perspective.

Dara Goldberg (21:58):

No. But I think you’re totally right. And that’s often conversations, we have as a community, which is, there is some guilt and there is a sense of, wait a minute, I’m putting me first here or I’m tending to my own needs, I’m making them equal or above and beyond this other stuff.

Dara Goldberg (22:25):

And again, it’s a cliché, but it’s not selfish. It’s self-care, it’s self-preservation, it’s really valuing yourself. And if we’re going to really work at changing the way society values us and sees our worth, then we really have to believe in it ourselves. Because otherwise, it’s just kind of this veil that we’re trying to carry. But it’s so hard. I don’t mean to be glib about it at all.

Stephanie McCullough (22:59):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (23:00):

Yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (23:01):

Well, one of the things that I try to help women see is that focusing on accumulating more wealth, earning more money is not selfish. And in fact, there’s research showing that women approach money differently than men and tend to focus on yes, what it can do for them and their families, but also their communities, when they make different decisions with their dollars, writ large, big, big picture.

Stephanie McCullough (23:29):

But I feel like it’s a similar thing when you’re looking at your own sense of fulfillment and how people are giving back to the world because it is, as you’re saying, very often a desire to give back in a different way. So, if you’re giving back from a healthy space, isn’t that better for everyone?

Dara Goldberg (23:48):

Yeah. That’s a wonderful way to say it. Yep. Hands down.

Kevin Gaines (23:53):

So, also on your website, you’ve got something called the Endless Beauty Collective. What is that?

Dara Goldberg (24:03):

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you asking. So, I mentioned just a bit before that through the Lovin’ Midlife movement and the community I built there, I kept having conversation after conversation about the beauty industry in particular and the fact that so much of our perceived value and worth from a young age is our physicality and what we look like. And how much emphasis is placed on that and how much we learn to scrutinize and rip ourselves up around it.

Dara Goldberg (24:53):

And on top of that, we’ve been given the message that aging is the enemy of beauty. So, the minute you start showing that you’re aging — I mean even women in their 30s, I found a study when I was writing an article and it was asking women of many different ages, do you fear aging? And this 16-year-old girl said, “Yes, because I don’t want to become ugly and invisible.”

Dara Goldberg (25:29):

And these kids at 16 are already starting to consider Botox or filler. And as we get older, I don’t judge what procedures women go through, that’s your choice. But the fact that society is telling us and these girls that aging is the worst possible thing you can do. And the beauty industry is saying, don’t worry, we have magic potions that will turn back time that will stop the clock. I mean there’s a brand, a collection called the DNA collection, Do Not Age collection.

Stephanie McCullough (26:14):

Oh my God.

Dara Goldberg (26:14):

Yeah. So, that’s why I started the Endless Beauty Collective, which is, it’s two tracks. It’s, I’m trying to build 30,000 women, a community of 30,000 of us to say, use our voices, our incredible — and you guys know this, in the financial world, we have incredible purchasing power. Right? Incredible.

Stephanie McCullough (26:38):

Yeah.

Dara Goldberg (26:38):

So, if we are shrewd with what brands we open our wallets and we say no to the brands that are telling us aging is bad. And you using what I call the Y word, youth and young and your youth serums, if we choose brands that not only don’t use that messaging, truly give a positive and healthy take on, we’re going to help you stay healthy. I mean, help you stay healthy and looking and feeling as beautiful as you are at every age.

Dara Goldberg (27:15):

And so, one track is building this community of women and then the other track, and they come together, is working with brands to change their culture and their messaging. And I want to say it loud and clear, there are so many that are changing, have already changed. Like, and we call them pro-age brands. It’s amazing. It’s really starting to change. We have a long way to go. But yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (27:48):

That’s great to hear because the big ones you see, aren’t-

Dara Goldberg (27:52):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (27:54):

So much doing that. I mean, and I think the words and the messaging is so important, even saying like, “Oh, I have a senior moment.” That’s not such a good comment. Like that saying like, decay is inevitable when we age.

Dara Goldberg (28:08):

Right. I totally agree with you.

Stephanie McCullough (28:10):

Are there other words that you would encourage us to become more aware of that we might use or see out in the world?

Dara Goldberg (28:18):

Yeah. Well, I just finished an article about the word aging and you’ll see on Instagram that a lot of posts are saying, “I think we need to change the word, it needs to be alternative aging or positive aging, or a word that doesn’t include, or term that doesn’t include the word aging.”

Dara Goldberg (28:44):

And I don’t see it that way. And I’m totally open to other people having different perspectives, but I don’t think it’s the word that needs to change. It’s how we define it. It’s up to us to define it. And taking the stigma off of it and giving it a positive connotation.

Dara Goldberg (29:08):

It’s not all fun and games. We know that. There’s plenty to not like. But the idea that there’s been this ribbon tied only around the negative, and that’s the definition of aging. Because I think the minute we start saying, “Let’s get rid of the word,” we’ve given up and given the power back by saying, “Okay, you win, the word sucks, let’s get another one.” So, that’s just one example.

Stephanie McCullough (29:40):

I mean, as people say, it’s better than the alternative. If you’re not aging, you’re six feet under.

Dara Goldberg (29:56):

Yeah. Yeah, that’s true.

Kevin Gaines (29:51):

I feel inspired to go on a soapbox rant here.

Stephanie McCullough (29:55):

Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

Dara Goldberg (29:56):

Please, please.

Kevin Gaines (29:57):

So, I’ve never really given much thought to the whole aging culture. We get older. Okay, fine. It happens. But the one thing that has always irked me, and they always do it to people in their 80s or 90s, is where you really hear it is, “She’s turned 89 years young today.”

Kevin Gaines (30:19):

What’s wrong with saying the word 89 years old? Saying young just comes across … to me personally anyway. And maybe nobody else gives a damn what I think, but it just seems so, and I’m grasping for the word here, not derogatory, not platitude-

Dara Goldberg (30:38):

Disrespectful.

Stephanie McCullough (30:40):

That’s good.

Kevin Gaines (30:41):

Yeah. It just seems demeaning to the whole-

Dara Goldberg (30:44):

I agree.

Kevin Gaines (30:45):

Yeah. Every time I hear that, it always sounds … and whoever says it always sounds like they’re trying to be cute about it. It’s like, no.

Dara Goldberg (30:53):

Well, and I could not agree with you more, because they’re dismissing the fact that you have 89 years of experience of wisdom, of resilience, of love, giving and getting and everything in between of your relationships shifting. I could not agree with you more.

Dara Goldberg (31:18):

Another one within that vein is ageless, because we’re not ageless, we’re ageful. And isn’t that a beautiful thing? I mean I love that you brought that up. I couldn’t agree more.

Stephanie McCullough (31:35):

Okay. So, I have to ask because it has just come out in the week that we’re recording. What do you think about Martha Stewart on the Swimsuit Magazine cover?

Dara Goldberg (31:45):

I should have known you were going to ask.

Stephanie McCullough (31:46):

I couldn’t help it.

Dara Goldberg (31:49):

I’m of two minds, to be honest with you. I think, having Sports Illustrated choose to have her is a big statement, a positive one because of what we know Sports Illustrated has promoted for decades. These way-too-skinny young women and that’s the norm. I think that’s great.

Dara Goldberg (32:18):

I think it’s also great because it’s such a widely read and the mass audiences that are seeing this. I am disappointed that the filters, the photoshopping, the hearing that she dieted straight for two months prior, that disappoints me because that reinforces the, we can’t really look older. But I would say, it’s an and both.

Stephanie McCullough (32:54):

Yeah.

Dara Goldberg (32:54):

I keep using that term.

Stephanie McCullough (32:55):

Yeah.

Dara Goldberg (32:55):

So, how about you?

Stephanie McCullough (32:56):

I think I’m the same. At first, I was like, huh, look at that, they’re featuring an older person, but she’s not allowed to look old, because that’s the point. Like look, you too can pretend not to be 81 when you’re 81, but that’s what we’re fighting against.

Stephanie McCullough (33:15):

Speaking of magazines, I have to ask you about a magazine that you’re involved with, the Pro-Age Woman Magazine. Tell us about that.

Dara Goldberg (33:24):

I’m a huge fan. I’m biased because I write for it, but it’s called a lifestyle magazine for women 50 and older, but I’d call it a life magazine.

Dara Goldberg (33:36):

It’s everything from financial advice to some of the articles I’ve written are beauty defined, not redefined. Like I mentioned taking the Y word out of the beauty industry. They’re provocative articles and some are very, I’ll say mental health focus where it’s concrete advice. Some are all about fashion and menopause.

Dara Goldberg (34:05):

It runs the gamut and it’s all relevant to us who are 50 and older. And it’s giving voice and also, I think making those of us who read it and see it, validation and credibility and legitimacy and visibility. It is a subscription-based magazine and I really encourage your listeners to subscribe.

Stephanie McCullough (34:35):

We’ll definitely link in the show notes so people can find it.

Dara Goldberg (34:40):

Great. That’s great.

Stephanie McCullough (34:41):

So Dara, please share with our listeners where they can find more about Lovin’ Midlife and the Endless Beauty Collective.

Dara Goldberg (34:48):

You can find me a lot on Instagram at daradoesmidlife, d-a-r-a does midlife and I’m very active there. And my website is endlessbeautycollective.com or dara@lovinmidlife.com.

Dara Goldberg (35:14):

And I do, on my website, I have what I call the pro-age brand guide and it’s beauty brands that absolutely do nothing ageist in their messaging, marketing. So, I encourage people to do that and become part of the movement. Sign what I call the petition. It’s like a petition where we need your names on it, so that I can go out and say we’re 30,000 women strong, we’re done, we’re taking the power back. So, thank you.

Stephanie McCullough (35:43):

I love it. Yeah, we’ll definitely link to that. We want to support those who get it. Who get it, get us and also acknowledge our market power, for goodness sakes. We got resources.

Dara Goldberg (35:54):

Yeah. Yep.

Stephanie McCullough (35:56):

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for spending time with us today.

Dara Goldberg (36:00):

Thank you both so much. This was great.

Kevin Gaines (36:02):

I appreciate you taking the time.

Kevin Gaines (36:08):

All I can say is it was exciting to find other people who agree with me about that whole years young thing.

Stephanie McCullough (36:17):

One of your pet peeves.

Kevin Gaines (36:18):

Don’t get me wrong. Dara said — she had a lot of good stuff to say and everything, but every time they say that on like the six o’clock news, it just oh. And just to get the reaction from both you and her going, “Oh yes. It is really just … it’s like it’s silly. It’s demeaning. It’s all these things.

Kevin Gaines (36:44):

So yes, my biggest takeaway from this interview was something I said.

Stephanie McCullough (36:50):

Shocker.

Kevin Gaines (36:51):

Hey, there’s me not being selfish or-

Stephanie McCullough (36:52):

Shocker.

Kevin Gaines (36:56):

Or embracing the selfishness.

Stephanie McCullough (36:58):

But I think that does fit in right into her point, right?

Kevin Gaines (37:00):

Yes.

Stephanie McCullough (37:00):

Which is like, all this messaging about aging is shameful and old is bad and older women have no visibility, no power. That’s all crap. And yet we’ve swum in it so long, it’s hard to kind of pull it out of ourselves and retake our power as she put it. Reposition ourselves into really asking the questions that we encourage our clients to ask.

Stephanie McCullough (37:24):

What is it that really is going to give you a life that you want to be living? What is making you feel fulfilled? What is it that is the way that you feel like you can give back to the world now?

Stephanie McCullough (37:40):

And again, that changes over time. And Dara shared her experience about a particular time when it did start to shift. And this thing that she loved doing for so long stopped being the thing and that that’s okay.

Stephanie McCullough (37:54):

So, I do love that whole positioning of the changes that we inevitably face and the whole idea of the midlife growth spurt as opposed to crisis. That’s just my favorite reframing ever.

Kevin Gaines (38:08):

But it’s true. Again, it’s true. It’s evolving. I mean, and again, you and I see this all the time sitting down with people talking about when you stop worry — what do you want the next stage of your life to look like? We’re actually hesitant to have that conversation with people earlier on in their lives because we know it’s going to change. And we see people are scared to admit that it changed.

Stephanie McCullough (38:39):

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Gaines (38:40):

Sometimes. And it’s like, no, it’s, you now want different things.

Stephanie McCullough (38:45):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (38:46):

There’s nothing wrong with that.

Stephanie McCullough (38:48):

You’ve lived more years; you’ve had more inputs. And I like how she talks about you’re going to have emotions around this. And the emotions are data. The emotions themselves aren’t shameful or something to be scared about.

Stephanie McCullough (39:01):

What did she say? You can manage the anxiety about it, about having the emotions. I think they call that meta-emotions. I’m having feelings about my feelings or about the fact that I have feelings.

Stephanie McCullough (39:13):

And as always, I encourage people to find a money buddy. If you can find some trusted friend who’s not going to be judgmental of you and like she said, maybe help you gain a little perspective on what they’re seeing about you and share what you’re feeling, what you’re going through, that I think is super helpful.

Kevin Gaines (39:31):

Yeah. I think that sums it nice.

Stephanie McCullough (39:36):

Excellent. Well, we hope you’ve enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much for being with us. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.

Kevin Gaines (39:42):

And it’s goodbye from her.

Stephanie McCullough (39:48):

Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends. Show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com.

Stephanie McCullough (39:53):

Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only Raymond Loewy, through New Math in New York. See you next time.

Disclaimer (40:00):

Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material, are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice, or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor, prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.