Stephanie McCullough (00:06):

This is Take Back Retirement, the show that’s redefining retirement for women. Retirement is an old-fashioned cultural concept. We want to reclaim the word so you can make it your own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, financial planner and founder of Sofia Financial, where our mission is to reduce women’s money stress, and empower them to make wise holistic decisions so they can get back to living their best lives. Kevin Gaines is my longtime colleague with deep knowledge in the technical stuff, investments, taxes, and retirement plan rules. He’s a little bit geeky and quantitative. I’m a little bit touchy-feely and qualitative. Together through conversations and interviews, we aim to give you the information and motivation you need to move forward with confidence. We’re so glad you’re here.

(00:55):

Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial, an American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (01:06):

Hello, Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (01:07):

Today we have a very interesting guest. Laura DeCesaris is a functional medicine-trained health strategist who works with female entrepreneurs, career women, and other highly motivated women. She has many degrees in health and nutrition, including from the Institute for Functional Medicine and a graduate degree in Chiropractic. So she has a really interesting business now where she’s helping women with their health in a very innovative way, I would say. But what we wanted to dig into with her about is, we just recently had our episode on longevity and what fun is living a long time if you’re not healthy to enjoy it. So we thought it was a great time to bring on Dr. Laura, and we will dive into this conversation. Dr. Laura DeCesaris, welcome to Take Back Retirement.

Laura DeCesaris (02:00):

Gosh, thanks so much for having me. So excited to be here and have this conversation with you both today.

Stephanie McCullough (02:06):

Yeah, it just seems so pertinent because as our regular listeners will know, we just recently did an episode on longevity, which is in the financial world, it’s considered a risk because, oh gosh, you might live longer than your money does, but also just from a health and enjoying life standpoint, it can be wonderful or it can be a risk. How do you think of it, Dr. Laura?

Laura DeCesaris (02:31):

Absolutely. That’s so interesting to me, not being in the financial world, having that be a risk factor, living longer because are you going to have dollars that extend with you? So that, in my head, I started laughing. I’m like, that’s so wild just human to human being. I do think that people are living longer and have an interest in living longer. And I think the important part of this conversation, especially as we’re talking about using our dollars, wealth building, is in terms of that longevity, are we talking just lifespan? How many years someone lives or are we talking health span, which is how many active healthy years does someone have? Because you could have two individuals living till, let’s say 90 years old if one has a good health span and 86 of those years are healthy and active, and another person has a health span of 60 years where they have 30 years of poor health, chronic health conditions, things like that, one of those people is probably going to be allotting much more of their dollars towards healthcare costs, towards other things like that.

(03:41):

So within this conversation of longevity, it’s also understanding what is the quality of those years. It’s not just us wanting to live longer, but it’s wanting us to live healthier, more active, more present years, so then we can use our dollars for fun stuff, not just fixing our bodies year after year.

Kevin Gaines (04:01):

So when you’re talking about health as we age and doing a lot of the simple things to make sure that lasts, what are some of the simple things that people could do? But more interestingly, what are the things that don’t work? Because God knows I’m always seeing on Twitter or somewhere, five easy steps and to stay mentally sharp or to stay physically fit or whatever, and half of them are bunk, I suspect.

Laura DeCesaris (04:31):

Yeah, it’s so, it’s so interesting. I think as humans, a lot of the time we have shiny object syndrome, and I think social media feeds into that. We see everybody doing something and we’re like, that’s it. That’s the golden ticket to living all these healthy years. And people want to skip the boring stuff, but the boring stuff that you do day in and day out, that’s what’s linked in all the studies to longer health span to longevity. When we look at areas of the planet, like the Blue Zones, where people tend to live the longest, have the best quality of life as reported by themselves, the lower rate of chronic illnesses, they’re not always paying $500 in supplements. They’re not jumping into a bunch of different machines. They’re doing very basic things like getting outside every day, having important social networks, community, a support system.

(05:24):

They’re not isolated and feeling lonely, they value those relationships. They’re managing their stress or their perception of stress, meaning they’re not letting every little thing get them all irritated and agitated every day, they have a much healthier relationship with stress. They’re eating a variety of foods versus limiting themselves to these tribal food groups that we see in today’s world. Everyone wants to identify themselves by their diet, but in these areas of longevity, they’re eating a little bit of everything. Plant foods, animal foods, like true omnivore approach in a non-stressful way while getting in lots of daily movement, getting outside and having that sense of connection. So those things seem really basic, but I watch people skip right past them all the time in favor of what’s the perfect diet? What’s the perfect workout regimen? What are the supplements I have to take? And those things are only applicable once you’ve done the basics.

(06:25):

If you’re skipping over that and trying to get your health optimized through these other means, I think you’re missing out on just some really important parts of what it means to be healthy as a human being. We’re created to do these other things. What we were not created to do was be stuck by ourselves alone in an office for 18 hours a day, not talking to other people, not getting fresh air, not moving our bodies. So really going back to the basics, that’s the stuff that if you stay consistent with it, really translates to better health and easier time maintaining better health and generally having this better sense of wellbeing that we associate with not just the longer lifespan, but the longer healthspan.

Stephanie McCullough (07:09):

So, you mentioned that this is the basic stuff and it’s in so many ways, there are parallels with financial health because often the, for sure it’s all about what’s simple, but simple doesn’t mean easy. So what is it that stands in our way as humans from focusing on those basics, from doing that stuff every day? What have you seen people struggle with?

Laura DeCesaris (07:31):

That’s a good question, and I love that things can be simple, but that doesn’t mean that they’re easy. I think one of the biggest things standing in the way is just like we call it comparisonitis. People are watching what everyone else is doing, they’re watching social media videos. They’re thinking, okay, to be healthy now I have to cold plunge, intermittent fast, eat keto, do all these other things that feel really hard and difficult. So what happens is people will do them for a couple of weeks and then totally go the other direction because it just wasn’t sustainable. I don’t think people always understand these more basic things, they don’t necessarily see the immediate gratification from them. A lot of times when people start a new diet, they start a new supplement, something will happen quickly, and it’s that instant sense of gratification, things are working. Whereas if we look like the bigger lifestyle factors, prioritizing our sleep, learning to better handle stress like that doesn’t happen overnight.

(08:29):

So people don’t get that immediate instant gratification that in today’s world, a lot of people want, they want results yesterday in every area’s their life. I’m sure you guys see it with financial things as well. People want everything to happen right now versus looking at the long game. So I think some of that is just a societal tendency if we call it that, to we want everything done now in the simplest way possible, and our bodies are very complex. That’s just not how they work. We have patterns, we have genetics that we’re passing down. You have to give the body time to adapt to things. And sometimes that means taking a step back, looking at the habits that are simpler, even if they’re not easy, it’s not easy to shut the screens off when it gets dark out. It’s much more simple to watch the TV, to unwind, to grab the glass of wine, to unwind.

(09:23):

But it is simple to make swaps for those things. And I think starting to shift, if we’re talking about longevity of our health, why are we not looking at longevity of our habits? I don’t know many people who are on a diet who want to be on that diet forever, it’s just not sustainable. So a lot of this is that mindset shift of why am I doing these things? Why am I trying to rush this? And just get an answer right now when it probably took me a long time of not-so-great habits to get to this point and first and foremost.

Stephanie McCullough (09:56):

Ooh, you said so much good stuff there.

Kevin Gaines (09:58):

Yeah, I’ll go this direction. Talk about shifting mindset. What’s involved in that? I mean, is that just sitting there hypnotizing people saying, don’t smoke anymore or get up and walk? Or is it more involved about changing habits?

Laura DeCesaris (10:15):

Yeah, so the way I like to think about this is you’ll hear people talk about mindset, mindfulness practices, and I actually think that second-word practice is more important because when we think about practicing for a sport, for learning a new language, what does that mean? We know that we have to do this continuously day after day to hone that skill and become a pro in it. So a lot of times what I’ll see people do for mindset changes is, “Okay, tomorrow I’m going to have the healthy mindset and I’m only going to think positive thoughts, and I’m going to do this,” and it’s an item on their to-do list, and they check it off, boom, done, and then they go right back to their habits the rest of the day, they’re running on autopilot. They’re neurotically checking their phone and Instagram things and everything else.

(11:00):

And really, when we start to understand these mindset shifts, I think first and foremost, understanding it’s not an item on your to-do list. It’s a practice that you have to continually be doing. You have to be present throughout your day. And that’s difficult for a lot of people when they have a lot of moving parts and pieces in their life. They have their business, they have stress from finances, relationships, they got kids soccer practice, they got to cook clean. And it’s hard to be present in all of those when you feel overwhelmed by the amount of things on your plate. So a true mindset shift, a true mindfulness practice is practicing being present in each of those moments and understanding why we’re doing the things that we’re doing. Why are we spending all the time taking kids to these different activities? So they can grow as people, explore their interest, it’s good for them, their social. Understanding why we do the things we do and not be stuck in autopilot because we learned something at one point that this was how things were supposed to go.

(12:02):

So for our health, what a mindset shift, what mindfulness looks like is for many people, their experience of health is, “I wait until something hurts or something’s wrong, I go see a doctor, they give me something to fix it.” When the reality is, what if we started shifting that to think, “Okay, what if my health instead is, I don’t want to wait till something’s wrong. I want to understand how my body works. I want to do a couple little things every day that make me feel good, and that prevent those bad things from happening.” Bad things may always happen for many reasons, but I think if we start to understand that we can make these little shifts every day, your body responds to that, and it doesn’t necessarily take this super intense diet or supplement regimen or things like that. Sometimes it’s just get outside and get some sunlight in your eye first thing in the morning to help your mood for the day. Sometimes it’s just go on the walk at five o’clock instead of reaching for the beer or the glass of wine every day. It’s very little shifts.

(13:06):

But if you don’t have that mindset piece of understanding how those little daily activities impact that, it’s really hard to catch yourself in the moment. You do end up waiting until you feel terrible, you’re not sleeping, you have hormone issues, you’ve gained weight that you don’t want. So it starts with understanding why we’re doing these things and associating them with some sort of goal, some purpose.

Kevin Gaines (13:29):

But is it acceptable to grab the beer and take the walk? asking for a friend.

Laura DeCesaris (13:35):

It’s probably more ideal than having the beer and just sitting there. So walking definitely helps. And look, I very much take an 80/20 approach to my own health to other people’s work, meaning we’re also humans. So my partner Steven and I, we love food, culinary things, wine pairing. So I absolutely will indulge in some of that. But I’m doing that in a place where it’s fun and it’s a place where we’re bonding and connecting. What I’m not doing is, I had such a stressful day, let me just have some wine and get through this and then figure it out. That is a crutch versus having the drink because you enjoy it. It’s Friday, you’re seeing your friends, you’re outside in beautiful weather, things like that. So the intention behind things I think does matter for sure.

Stephanie McCullough (14:24):

You said something that really struck a nerve with me because I think, again, it’s similar in the financial world. You said we don’t understand how our bodies work. And when would we have learned? I remember the class in third grade about human sexuality, but I don’t think I learned a heck up a lot more than that. And we always say, people don’t teach us how to deal with money either. How much of an issue do you see that being that we never learned this stuff?

Laura DeCesaris (14:51):

Absolutely. I feel like I saw something on LinkedIn or somewhere the other day that was like, they teach us geometry and sine cosine, but they don’t teach us how to do our taxes or how to take care of our bodies or basic nutrition, which I think a lot of people really need. And it is true. I really didn’t have education in depth on, let’s say, take hormones, for example, on female hormones until I went and pursued education in that. That was never taught on a deep level. And same goes for men too. I think men still really don’t understand or are taught about their hormones. A lot of men don’t understand that as they get older, they have their own version of menopause, it’s called andropause, and most men have never heard that phrase before. So if we want to, as we’re talking about longevity in this health span, we start reaching our forties, our fifties, our sixties, understanding what the heck is happening in your body can drastically change how you’re approaching your health because you start to understand your blind spots.

(15:52):

What are the things that I’m more prone to as I’m aging that I need to pay a little more attention to than I did when I was 20 or 30? And you’re right, it’s just when you’re not taught that it’s very difficult, and it can be frustrating for a lot of people. I’ll talk to a lot of women who are in their fifties and sixties, and they have this sense of frustration that they just had 20 years of chronic health problems that they probably didn’t need to have if someone had just taken the time to teach them about it. So I do think as much as we say, sometimes social media can lead us astray, one good thing about the last couple years and so many things going virtual is this information is becoming much more accessible for people. Between YouTube, different social media clips, people creating online programs that you can access from everywhere. That educational piece I think is finally becoming a little more accessible for a lot of people, which is really important.

Stephanie McCullough (16:48):

So true. There’s a lot of information out there, and sometimes it’s hard to weed out the good from the bad. Are there any kind of red flags that you would point people to, to know, oh, maybe this isn’t the right person to be giving me advice? For example, in finances, we say, if someone says, absolutely everyone should do this, and absolutely no one should do that, that’s a red flag. They don’t know anything about your situation. They don’t know what’s right for you. So what about in health? How do we try to get smart about what voices to listen to?

Kevin Gaines (17:18):

Stephanie, I’m shocked by that question. I thought we knew everything on the internet was true.

Stephanie McCullough (17:22):

Oh yeah. Right.

Kevin Gaines (17:25):

Huh. I’m learning something today.

Laura DeCesaris (17:28):

When I used to have a brick-and-mortar practice, I would dread when people would bring in stacks of paperwork and they’re like, “Well, I was googling this and I have all these questions.” And I’m like, oh, not Dr. Google anything, but that. It just, it’s going to be a long conversation. You’re right, it’s good and bad. And there definitely are things to look out for. Similarly to what you mentioned with finances, same goes with health. If someone is promoting one nutritional approach, one diet, one supplement that everybody should take, to me that’s a huge red flag. We value something called bioindividuality, which is that every person, even if they’re the same age and gender, every person is different. They have a different genetic makeup, they have a different lifestyle, they have a different environment, they have a different stress level. And you really need to consider all of these things when you’re figuring out what the best nutrition, what the best health plan is for you.

(18:23):

So if someone’s saying, keto is for everybody, or vegan diet is for everybody, to me, I’m like, that is not someone who I’d probably listen to, because it’s a much more nuanced conversation. I think this is a really interesting area, I mentioned this briefly earlier. A lot of people get very tribal about nutritional approaches. They make them their whole identity. And to me that’s problematic because it erases the possibility of a good healthy discourse on these topics. When someone takes it as a personal affront, if someone doesn’t eat the same way as them, how are we supposed to actually have a good conversation about this? Because you’ve made it your personality, and it’s great that it worked for you, but we have to acknowledge that different things work for different people. And even at different stages of life. Someone who did well with a vegan diet when they were younger may need to become more of an omnivore. They may need some more animal proteins as they age just to help them retain muscle mass. So there’s so many considerations here.

(19:24):

The other thing I will say, particularly for women who are listening, also, if someone is telling you that your hormones don’t matter, your metabolism doesn’t matter, it’s just what you eat and how you work out calories in, calories out, that’s a huge red flag for me. That’s a very outdated approach. And those systems only work assuming a healthy underlying metabolism and hormone balance. I think there’s enough anecdotal stories of people being like, “Nope, I was counting the calories and exercising and I still gained weight.” We wouldn’t have that experience if it was as simple as calculating number of calories and exercise. So I do think a lot of these things are much more nuanced than people would make them to be out on the internet for sure.

Kevin Gaines (20:08):

Earlier you said the word stress a few times. Now we talk about stress on here as a way of reducing your money stress, so you can just have a happier life. But something tells me stress is a little bit more nefarious in your world than it is in ours.

Laura DeCesaris (20:27):

Stress, particularly chronic, poorly managed stress. So I’m not talking, you have an acute stressor in the moment, someone got sick, that there was something unexpected that happened that you’re going to move past. Body can handle some acute periods of stress here and there. But the chronic long-term stress that we see in so many people, many who report finances are part of that, but also people worrying about what’s on the news, what’s going to happen, this like every day, we all know that person who’s a little bit defined by their stress. We ask them how they are so busy, so stressed. That is super dangerous because we think as an evolved species that we’re smart enough to know the difference between a physical stressor like a workout and an emotional stressor. I read a comment on an Instagram page that really triggered me, but the body doesn’t know the difference.

(21:25):

It’s making the same amount of stress hormones, it’s starting off this symphony of molecules being created that respond to stress, which is an inflammatory response. And when it goes on for a long time, this chronic low level of inflammation, it crashes your immune system. So you’re more likely to get sick, not feel best, have low energy. It makes it really difficult for you to maintain a healthy body composition. So you tend to put on weight, lose your muscle mass, which we don’t want. We definitely want to keep our muscle mass as we age for longevity. And it leaves us feeling mentally very off because all of the little chemicals that we make that make us feel happy and motivated and everything else, really hard for the body to make those in chronic stress. So you get in these mental stress cycles where it almost feels hard to think your way out of it because you don’t understand that your biochemistry isn’t supporting that happening.

(22:23):

So stress, we know if there’s one thing that we can get people to do, it’s help them figure out how to reduce some of their stressors that are in their control. Meaning, I don’t know, maybe the person is not very good at saying no or setting boundaries. Maybe they need some help with their finances, like some things we can control, some sources of stress, we can’t. So what we have to start to do then is the stressors that are out of our control, how do we change our perception of that stress? Meaning it’s out of our control, we can’t do anything about it, but how do we start looking at it as something that can help us become more resilient humans, that can help us learn something. Again, going back to some of that mindset shifts. Because we know when people do that, it changes the underlying biochemistry and the hormones. And that part is really important for that health span and longevity.

(23:18):

We see that in a lot of studies that under situations of chronic stress, people tend to have much worse health outcomes in every major area of disease that we look at. So it is super important, but I think that perception piece is really important because if we also say, “Oh my gosh, I’m so stressed, stress is going to kill me.” Actually, studies show us that’s more likely to happen if you believe that to be true. So that mindset shift is actually very powerful at helping our health outcomes when we do have a situation with extended stress.

Stephanie McCullough (23:51):

Well, you mentioned making the distinction between the things that we can do something about that causes stress and the things that we can’t, and we focus on that too. Again, in the financial world, there’s stuff we can take action on to improve our situation, and there’s stuff we can’t, we can’t change what the economy is going to do or the stock market’s going to do, or even what our employer might going to be able to do, but there are things that are within your control. So we do try to focus people’s attention to those items and then giving them strategies. People sometimes say, “I want to have a plan and work the plan.” And then if they’re taking action, that seems to help them feel some level of agency, which reduces the stress. Do you see parallels on the health side as well?

Laura DeCesaris (24:38):

Absolutely. And when I hear you describing that in my head, I’m saying, oh, well, here’s what’s happening biochemically for that person.

Stephanie McCullough (24:45):

Oh, tell me. Tell me.

Laura DeCesaris (24:48):

They have a goal, they’re taking action. Their body starts producing dopamine so they stay motivated. When they feel like they hit milestones, they make more serotonin. So there’s this whole neurochemistry cascade that comes with that. But it’s all about being able to take the action steps. You don’t need to necessarily know all the names of the hormones and things, but know that by just taking action, even if it’s, we always say imperfect action is greater than perfect inaction. Taking action steps in any area of life, it’s going to help your body help you continue to stay motivated regardless whether you’re working towards a health goal, a financial goal, or anything else. Versus feeling helpless, you don’t know what you’re working towards, you don’t know where to go. That creates this sense of overwhelm, stress responds. That just doesn’t help you out.

(25:40):

And I’m sure you’ve both seen clients where you’re like, “No, we don’t want that for you. We want you to feel good about this and be able to weather these ups and downs that come with the financial landscape and whatever that may be.” So the plan is always good. The action steps are equally as good, if not more important. And that last piece is also, sounds a little out there, but just letting go of it all once in a while. I think sometimes we take ourselves way too seriously. I know I’m definitely guilty of that, where it’s you just have to take a step back and say, okay, why am I doing all this? Why am I putting this stress on myself? How do I also just be present in this day-to-day life on this piece of rock floating around in space that we’re all on? I think we take ourselves way too seriously sometimes, and we really do need to keep things in perspective that yes, it’s good to pay attention to all of these things.

(26:33):

It’s also good to put it aside sometimes and just go connect with ourselves, connect with other humans. That’s really where this holistic approach to life to help the finances comes. How do we pair the strategies and the plan and the numbers with who we are as humans, our emotions, our intuition, just being happy and present as we go.

Stephanie McCullough (26:53):

I don’t know if any other Gen Xers, were getting a Monty Python moment there. Just remember that we’re sitting on a planet that’s revolving. We’ll have to link that one in the show notes.

Kevin Gaines (27:05):

But really what you’re saying is the serenity prayer is a prescription as opposed to just some little kitschy thing that your great aunt may hang on her living room wall.

Laura DeCesaris (27:18):

I think so. Yeah, I forgot about that. I think I have a grandmother that had that in her house for sure.

Kevin Gaines (27:26):

Had a magnet on my refrigerator growing up. I grew it up, thought it was just like a witty little thing. And then I eventually came to learn, it’s like, oh my God, no, this is actually a serious thing.

Laura DeCesaris (27:34):

Yeah, I think we’ve all had that feeling where we’re feeling a little stressed, overwhelmed. We’ve had a lot going on, and then we have a day where we connect, maybe we’re out with our close friends or we do something really fun with our family, or we go do our favorite activity and you come home and you’re like, “Oh gosh, I can handle all that now. I feel so much better.” So making sure that we’re pairing that with our drive to set ourself up for success long term in terms of finances, health, or anything else, we need both.

Stephanie McCullough (28:05):

Well, it’s interesting too because they’ve done studies on decision-making under conditions of uncertainty and stress, and our willpower runs out after a time. So if you’re facing a big financial decision, check in with yourself too. Have you gotten enough sleep? Are you feeling stressed or pressured? If not, come back tomorrow. Sleep on it, have a chat with a friend, and the mindsets that you approach it with makes a big difference in even just the possibilities that you can see.

Laura DeCesaris (28:34):

Absolutely. And this could be a really good cue for some of your female listeners when we talk about understanding your body and what it’s doing. As women actually, as the day goes on, we make less serotonin. So around 5:00 PM and later, it’s really difficult for us to have big heavy conversations. It’s a little difficult for us to identify what we need to feel good because that drop in serotonin has us just looking for anything to feel better. I’ll talk to a lot of women this manifests with them standing in front of an open fridge at eight and being like, I know I need something, but I don’t know what it is. So a lot of times what I’ll do when I’m working with clients, if these women are having big business conversations, important financial conversations with their partners, we’ll try and shift those to a daytime.

(29:24):

Can you guys set aside some time on a weekend? Can you do a lunch meeting? Because it’s easier for her to stay present, to be more forward-thinking, to stay more balanced emotionally earlier in the day versus late at night. Which a lot of times you think about when couples have these conversations, they finish their workday, they come home, they have dinner, they have the conversation, and really women aren’t wired to have those conversations later at night. So we can even look at little things like that, understanding our biochemistry, if we’re really going to think about these things, maybe shift them earlier in the day. So when I have my financial meetings with my money person, they’re always noon meetings. I don’t meet with her at the end of the day. Because I know for me, I’m not going to be as well able to have that conversation later on.

Stephanie McCullough (30:12):

I never heard that before. Always I’m at work, I’m like, oh, I’ll do this tonight when I get home and I’ll do that and I’ll do this and I’ll talk to my husband about that.

Laura DeCesaris (30:20):

Doesn’t happen, does it?

Stephanie McCullough (30:22):

Doesn’t happen. And here I’m thinking, I’m just a wimp.

Laura DeCesaris (30:22):

Nope.

Kevin Gaines (30:24):

See, just further proof that I am just that attuned to everybody. That’s why I get in the office early and my head’s asleep at eight o’clock. I’m out of serotonin.

Stephanie McCullough (30:35):

So you did mention before we got on that, obviously we’ve talked about stress, but money can cause stress. And I know there’s all kinds of research around money causing health outcomes, and obviously in our society, health can cost money. How do you see the interaction between the money part and people’s health?

Laura DeCesaris (31:03):

Oh yeah. This is such a deep, juicy conversation that has many different layers, which is on a base layer, yes, we know people that have a lot of financial stress, have more socioeconomic challenges, tend to have poorer health outcomes. Much of that coming from access to healthy foods, to healthcare, to all of those things. So that’s like the base society level is, people who are struggling financially, how do we get them the resources to be healthier so that these two things don’t become this horrible cycle of financial stress, poor health, financial stress, poor health, on and on and on. The other part of this conversation is, and I think this is what we were talking about, is I still see this when I talk to women about what are your sources of stress as we work through them. It’s finances regardless of what actual financial status they’re at, doesn’t matter it’s always there.

(32:05):

So there’s this interesting relationship with money. I’m sure you guys see it in men too. I just happen to work with women. So that’s really the area that I know it’s a money wound, almost like from an energy standpoint. We have trouble viewing money as something helpful, as something good, as something that comes and goes. We tend to tie a lot of emotions to it, including our own personal sense of success, of how good of a human we are, things like that. And I think that is a little dangerous, honestly. I know I’ve had to do a lot of work on that myself. Is view money as just, it’s something that’s coming and going. It’s not a definition of who I am as a person or how well or not well I’m doing. And I think that’s where a lot of the stress lies is our relationship to our finances.

(32:57):

And we’re tying personal strengths, personal goals with it a little bit too much versus viewing it for what it is. So there is that part of it. And then the last piece is, okay, well maybe there is actual financial stress where you want to invest in your health, in your business and other things, but you’re not seeing a way to make that work. The funds are just not there yet. So they’re coming to you to try and help them with the plan so that they can have that. But also sometimes, again, when you’re scrolling, social media health looks really expensive. It looks like cold plunges and saunas and supplements and diet plans and all these other…

Stephanie McCullough (33:36):

Trips to fancy spas.

Laura DeCesaris (33:37):

And really it’s just like anything else. You can budget for your health and you can also do a lot of free stuff that really helps move the needle forward when it comes to being healthier. So that ultimately if you start to do those little boring things we talked about earlier, day in and day out, then you don’t have to spend thousands of dollars to get yourself out of the health crisis because you were being proactive about it all along. Or maybe if, look, insurance is really expensive for a lot of people, health insurance, and it often doesn’t cover these preventative things that people want to do. Well, as we do our budget for our business, for our vacation, for everything else, can we budget an extra thousand dollars every year to do some preventative lab testing to figure out what I need this year in terms of my nutrition, in terms of stress support, and just look at it as part of my annual proactive health budget. So I think sometimes when you’re in it, you’re like, oh my gosh, I have to pay $20,000 to buy all this stuff.

(34:40):

But if we, again, take a step back and say, what are the little things I can do? I can make sure I’m doing those basics. Sleeping, managing my stress, working on my mindset, moving my body, and then I’ll just do a little bit of preventative lab work to see where things are at, see what I need to pay attention to. And really, a lot of people can budget that in, but I think they’re not thinking that big picture. They’re thinking in the moment and they want the fancy shiny tools. And the reality is, I don’t know if you have a shower or a bathtub, you can make your own cold plunge. You don’t need to go spend $2,000 on having a fancy one in your backyard if your budget doesn’t allow that. So there’s lots of ways to just translate this to everyday life.

Stephanie McCullough (35:23):

And I think again, another parallel with our world, it’s the small investments that you do on a regular basis that are going to move the needle much more. And then they’re going to set you up so that you’ve got things available when a crisis happens, you’ve got money in the bank, for example. You’ve got options available to you. Same thing, if you’ve been doing the health basics and something hits, something happens, you’re going to be in a much better position to weather.

Laura DeCesaris (35:51):

Absolutely. And I think we don’t always translate this to health, but when we think about running a business, learning about finances, most people take a season to invest in someone, a company like yours, something else to teach them about how to do this. They understand it’s not their zone of genius. I have to outsource this to someone who knows what they’re doing, but they haven’t fully translated that to a proactive health approach. So what if instead of getting caught up in all the fancy equipment, you just spent one season prioritizing learning about your health, you made an investment for that season that you could then carry with you for the rest of your life? So sometimes it’s also a short-term investment. It just has to be with someone who’s going to take the time to educate you and help you understand your body better.

(36:38):

I would much rather have people invest in that than every single January, invest in a diet program than find themselves in the same exact place 12 months later. Clearly, there’s no longevity to that. But instead, if we focus on educating you about what your body’s doing and how to do these daily activities to support it, that’s an investment that goes so much further.

Stephanie McCullough (36:58):

Much more the teaching you to fish approach.

Kevin Gaines (37:00):

So when you work with clients, what do you do as opposed to what do you not do when people come see you? Do they have a certain expectation that you have to say, “Yeah, no, I don’t do that, but here’s everything else that we will work on” or how do those conversations go?

Laura DeCesaris (37:20):

Yeah. So when I work with clients now, it’s typically in one of two ways. I either work with people one-on-one, or I actually have a membership to do this whole teaching you for a season thing that we’re talking about. Go figure. I do practice, what I preach. So I serve as a consultant and a strategist, meaning my role is to help you figure out what’s going on with your body now, help you understand how to take care of it in the long run and help you implement it. So what I’m not doing, if someone comes to me and is saying like, okay, I want to, sometimes people, they want to get a diagnosis and they want a pill for it, that’s not really what my business is about. This is consulting, this is education, this is strategy. This is for the person that wants to get off that hamster wheel of waiting till something goes wrong and then getting a pill to fix it.

(38:08):

This is about, okay, maybe I don’t feel good and I want to, or maybe I feel okay, but I want to feel really great. And it’s about I finally want to understand what’s happening with my body. I don’t want to have to keep doing these annual diets or detoxes or constantly beginning and losing the same 20 pounds. I just want to know what to do for me. So that’s really the type of clientele that come into work with us. And then my goal is always when we finish working together, they don’t feel like they’re dependent on me to know what to do for their health. They’ve become fully empowered with those tools. They know the things they need to be doing, and if they get off track because they had a season of stress, they know exactly how to get back going in the right direction.

(38:48):

So for me, it’s even about longevity in terms of those daily habits in addition to longevity, in terms of our actual health. And then the membership version is pretty much the same. It’s just for the self-led learner. So instead of me being there teaching us one-on-one every step of the way, all the material is there for you to consume. It’s very time efficient, 15 minutes a day or less, and you can implement it. We have weekly office hours for live Q&A support. So it’s meant to be here is how we start to also make this more affordable and bring it to more people so that it’s not a giant investment. It’s something that almost everyone can do, and they can learn those things that they can start implementing right away versus, oh, here’s a program, you need to go buy $10,000 of equipment to run it. Nope, it’s in 45 days, we’re going to start taking you through how to sleep better, how to align to your circadian rhythm, how to change your perception of stress, what actual quality nutrition looks like. And it’s just very actionable and realistic.

Stephanie McCullough (39:55):

Awesome. And Dr. Laura, how can people find you and find out more about what you’ve got to offer?

Laura DeCesaris (39:59):

So I’m on all the social platforms except for Twitter @dr.lauradecesaris or my website, drlauradecesaris.com. There’s a contact form on there and lots of information for people to go through.

Stephanie McCullough (40:14):

Thanks so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

Laura DeCesaris (40:16):

Thanks so much for having me. This is such a great conversation.

Kevin Gaines (40:22):

So shockingly a lot to unpack there, but-

Stephanie McCullough (40:28):

Only laughing because we say that every time.

Kevin Gaines (40:30):

What I did take away was her whole talk about stress and how it actually does eat away at your health. And yes, I mean, she was commenting about money, but it could be so many other things. And just trying to create a balance in your life where to use a cliche, you control your stress, not let your stress control you.

Stephanie McCullough (40:56):

I loved her idea of looking at the longevity of your habits. So, if we’re going to start say January one, I’m going to implement 10 new healthy habits every single day. And of course I don’t. So what are the things that I could do that I could add into my routine that are sustainable that I’m actually going to stick with for the long term? Both because I know they’re good for me, but also because they make me feel good in the moment. And they don’t cost a fortune.

Kevin Gaines (41:27):

I mean, and that’s a big thing, which is not trying to do these grandiose gestures, but just the little blocking and tackling that you do day in and day out. Get up and walk an extra five minutes or enjoy the sun or I hate to say it, don’t have that extra beer at night. But the little things, I mean, and frankly, it comes back to what we talk about here a lot, Stephanie, and that is when it comes to financial planning, it’s not making a killing of the stock market. It’s a lot of the basic things to get your ship sailing the straight, instead of just going off on all these wild pageants, hoping for some random success. Do the little things and your life could be much simpler.

Stephanie McCullough (42:21):

Yeah, that consistency was interesting. I loved her phrase that imperfect action is better than perfect inaction. I can’t tell you how many times I lie in bed in the morning and think, oh, well, I got to get up and I got to get my yoga clothes on. I get my yoga mat out and get my iPad out so I can turn on my yoga class. And I was like, oh my gosh, that’s going to take so much time. I don’t have that much time, and so I do nothing. Whereas if I just got up and did a couple sun salutations, I’d be in better shape. The idea that it’s a practice. It’s not a to-do list item. It’s something you practice then you actually do on a regular basis.

Kevin Gaines (42:57):

Making it part of your lifestyle, not a task. Plus, quite frankly, it becomes a little bit more enjoyable, a little bit easier to do. So I think that’s a fairly important thing to keep in mind as well.

Stephanie McCullough (43:13):

And the reality that I’m in and so many of my friends and peers are in is hormonal changes are real and they do have an impact. And that whole understanding how your body works, I think I understand very big picture, maybe a little bit beyond the headline, but certainly not past the first paragraph or the executive summary on how all this stuff works. So it is probably an interesting idea to invest in how do I gain that knowledge so that I know how to support my body and have it work for me as long as I’m around.

Kevin Gaines (43:49):

And just to go full circle, I mean, why are we talking about this? Quite frankly, we like to talk about having retirements where you’re doing what you want to do, not what you have to do. If you’re healthy, mobile and engaged, that retirement’s going to be a lot more of what you want to do and not, “Oh, I can’t go out because of this, that, or the other.” It’s all part of the same puzzle.

Stephanie McCullough (44:18):

So many parallels between health things and financial things, as we often say. Well, we hope you’ve enjoyed this conversation. We thank you so much for being with us. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.

Kevin Gaines (44:30):

And it’s goodbye from her.

Stephanie McCullough (44:33):

Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends, show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only Raymond Lowy through new math in New York. See you next time.

Disclaimer (44:48):

Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material, are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice, or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor, prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.