Shannon Russell (00:00):

Especially if you’re making this jump and maybe your family or your spouse or your best friend aren’t so supportive, or you’re afraid to tell them because you don’t want to hear what they’re going to say, if maybe they are going to project their fear that they may have for this kind of move onto you.

Shannon Russell (00:16):

I say keep it close to your chest. Do your research, do your planning yourself until you get that confidence where you’re like, “You know what, a thousand percent, this is what I’m meant to do. Now I’m going to project it to the world, and whatever they say will bounce off my armor because I know I’m doing the right thing.”

Shannon Russell (00:35):

So, really just having, even if it’s just one person you can go to, who maybe is a few steps ahead of you that you can lean on for any kind of support.

[Music Playing]

Stephanie McCullough (00:51):

Hey, dear listeners, we need to let you know that Kevin and Stephanie offer investment advice through Private Advisor Group, which is a federally registered investment advisor. The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations to any individual. To determine which strategies or investments may be suitable for you. Consult the appropriate qualified professional prior to making a decision. Now, let’s get on with the show.

Stephanie McCullough (01:25):

This is Take Back Retirement, the show that’s redefining retirement for women. Retirement is an old-fashioned cultural concept. We want to reclaim the word so you can make it your own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, financial planner and founder of Sofia Financial, where our mission is to reduce women’s money stress and empower them to make wise holistic decisions so they can get back to living their best lives.

Kevin Gaines is my longtime colleague with deep knowledge in the technical stuff: investments, taxes, retirement plan rules. He’s a little bit giggy and quantitative, I’m a little bit touchy-feely and qualitative. Together, through conversations and interviews, we aim to give you the information and motivation you need to move forward with confidence. We’re so glad you’re here.

Stephanie McCullough (02:14):

Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial and American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (02:26):

Hello Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (02:27):

Today we’re going to address a topic that comes up quite a bit in working with our clients. Not everyone, but there are a good chunk of the population, I think, who has this thought, this wondering, what if I start a business, should I start a business? Should I leave my corporate job and start a business? Could I do this thing as a business?

Stephanie McCullough (02:49):

And today we’re bringing to you Shannon Russell, a career transition and business coach who empowers women to leave unfulfilling careers and build joyful, purpose-driven businesses. She’s the author of a new book coming out, which we’re going to hear about called Start Your Second Act: How to Change Careers, Launch a Business, and Create Your Best Life. And she also has her very own podcast called The Second Act Success Career Podcast.

Stephanie McCullough (03:12):

You’ll hear a bit about her journey, but she left a successful career as a television producer and owned a franchise for a while. And now she has her coaching, her podcast and her new book. So, Shannon is going to share some of her wisdom to us. Let’s dive in. Shannon Russell, welcome to Take Back Retirement.

Shannon Russell (03:35):

Oh! Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to chat with you both.

Stephanie McCullough (03:38):

Oh I think this is such an interesting topic because you know when we talk to women in this kind of ahh whatever, middle of life and beyond or whatever we might — however we might phrase it, many of us get to the point where we’re kind of like you know we’ve been doing something for a long time and we’re like, we can maybe have a little itch or a little idea like, oh, what if I try this other thing?

Stephanie McCullough (04:02):

Or what if I just go out on my own and hang out my own shingle? Or I’ve always wanted to try something. And you are perfectly positioned to help us think that through and approach it from a really kind of intentional perspective.

Shannon Russell (04:15):

I hope so. Yeah, that’s–I love that. I love the idea of someone having that little thought and just not knowing how to execute it or at least research it and figure it out. So, yeah, this is my wheelhouse.

Stephanie McCullough (04:27):

Awesome. Well, maybe quickly first share it with us how you got to be doing what you do now.

Shannon Russell (04:32):

Sure. Yeah. Well, I began my career as a television producer. So, I was working in Hollywood in New York City for about 16 years. And then I had that moment with two little ones at home that I said, “You know what? I want to be more present. I don’t want to be traveling and missing things.”

Shannon Russell (04:48):

And so, that’s when I started thinking about my second act and I ended up going into entrepreneurship. I bought a franchise that I ran for eight years and successfully sold. And then I decided halfway through that franchise that a lot of women especially were asking me, ‘Well, how did you go from that to this? And can you help us?” [Stephanie McCullough overcross: hm hm]

Shannon Russell (05:08):

And so, I started just helping friends and customers and then that launched into my coaching business where I really want to focus on people who really feel stuck but know they’re meant for a little bit more and trying to get them across that bridge.

Stephanie McCullough (05:22):

You mentioned a couple different motivations for kind of wanting to be your own boss, but maybe share with us some of the other ones that you’ve seen. Like, what are the range of reasons people might want to do this?

Shannon Russell (05:33):

Yeah, I think it’s the flexibility, the freedom, and it can be the financial freedom you know like, building more of yours if you feel like you’ve kind of hit a ceiling where you are and you want to have more control over what you earn. And it’s that that voice in the back of our head or that little something that we always think, “Oh, maybe I should do that.”

Shannon Russell (05:53):

And I think when you get to a certain age, I don’t know about you guys, but that we start to realize, “Okay, we live once. I don’t want to have regrets at the end of the day. Maybe I should try this. And worse comes to worst I go back to the successful career I’m already in.” So, there’s not too much to lose.

Shannon Russell (06:09):

But yeah, I think it’s just that, I want to scratch that itch like you were saying, and to see what could happen and get outside of your comfort zone[Stephanie McCullough overcross: hm hm]. Sometimes we lose that fear I think a little bit as we get older.

Stephanie McCullough (06:21):

Yes. I definitely, I’ve heard people call the age, I’m in the F it 50s. Either you still have the fear and you’re like, “Wait, why is this ruling my life?” Or you’re a little bit less worried about what people are thinking or saying or you figure I’ve survived this much already. I’ll probably make it through.

Shannon Russell (06:42):

Exactly.

Kevin Gaines (06:43):

So, Shannon, a lot of people, present company included,you have hobbies and they say, “I could probably turn this into a business.” The reality is not all of them can. What’s the difference between a hobby and a business and how do you suggest people think about transitioning?

Shannon Russell (07:06):

Hmm! That’s a great question and I agree with you. I think it’s all about that research piece, that just letting yourself play around with the idea. And I suggest that to my clients all the time when they come to me with 10 different ideas of what they might want to do.

Shannon Russell (07:21):

It’s spend some time, even five minutes a day or 15 minutes a week and just research what it would look like if you turn that hobby into a business and do the research, see what other businesses are out there, how are they doing? What are their Google or Yelp reviews, reach out to someone who already owns that business and ask them what the day to day is because it’s not always greener on the other side.You want to really,I think  speacially at this age you want learn before you leap.

Shannon Russell (07:47):

You don’t want to just leap to something, and you want to be smart about it, I guess. So, I think in doing your research you might be able to say, “You know what, I really love making jewelry and this is a great hobby of mine. Maybe I take it to a craft show and maybe I put up an Etsy shop.”

Shannon Russell (08:03):

You know, you can start a little bit and just see what the market responses before you say, I’m going to throw in the towel at my job, or I’m going to just throw everything in my savings into this business.

Kevin Gaines (08:15):

You made an interesting point talking about,what where talking crafts, jewelry, that type of stuff about going to Etsy because like 30 years ago it was, I’m doing this and now I got to get a storefront or start off with a much bigger swing, so to speak. [Stephanie McCullough overcross: hm hm]

Stephanie McCullough (08:34):

Bigger investment.

Kevin Gaines (08:36):

With technology with different platforms, you can take more incremental steps. Has that changed a lot of people’s thinking on this?

Shannon Russell (08:47):

It really has Kevin, and it’s also, it allows you to do something, dip your toe in, build something, see it, test it, and you’re not investing a lot. I just started an Etsy shop. It’s not even up fully and running, but I have so many digital products that I give to clients and do workshops with that I’m like, why not just throw it up there?

Shannon Russell (09:05):

It’s something else, another potential revenue stream that I’m excited to do because I don’t want to use the word passive, but it’s not going to take as much energy. So, yeah, I think it’s changed and I think there’s lots of different business models now that have changed. And I owned, in my franchise, I had a brick and mortar, I had a storefront location, but we were also mobile based where we would go out to schools and rec centers and other locations and perform our services.

Shannon Russell (09:32):

So, those are just two models right there. And then you add on Etsy and online shops and it just gives you a wider menu, if you will, to say, “Okay, well this is what I’m thinking. What best suits my life and what I can handle at this time and how much money do I want to invest?”

Shannon Russell (09:49):

Because if you invest in a brick and mortar, you’re taking out a business loan, you’re investing a lot compared to the small fee that you’re paying to Etsy. So, I love the options that we have now that our parents didn’t have when they were starting out and maybe in the entrepreneurship world.

Stephanie McCullough (10:06):

Yeah. And maybe that is a part of the research like, how could I do this in a tiny little way? Maybe there’s options out there I hadn’t even dreamed of or wasn’t aware of.

Shannon Russell (10:20):

Yeah. And you know what? I spoke with someone recently on my podcast who had a disability and she isn’t able to travel or to really be that mobile. And so, creating an online business was her only option. And she’s so blessed by it because for her to be able to do that brings her income and just creates this whole world of her really feeling like she’s serving and she doesn’t have to worry about the mobile piece of it, which I think is amazing.

Shannon Russell (10:49):

So, it’s yeah, it’s starting it on the side. It’s starting it out of need and it’s testing that market because if you do really well in your Etsy or Spotify shop, then why not make that something more and bring it to actual events on weekends or start a store of your own. It’s just helping you realize really what that need is.

Stephanie McCullough (11:10):

How about this question? So, my mother is an amazing sewer, I don’t want to say seamstress because that sounds like a different thing, right. She would create these amazing clothes for herself and I would ask her, why don’t you want to go sell your clothes? And she thought, “Oh! Well if it was a job I wouldn’t enjoy it so much.” How do you help people navigate kind of that tension?

Shannon Russell (11:30):

That’s a really, really good point, Stephanie, because I’ve heard that from people as well too. And you want to take that very seriously too, because you don’t want to start a business and then feel all of that pressure because business is not just making that product and that craft and that fun of it. It’s the admin, it’s the marketing, it’s the dealing with customers.

Shannon Russell (12:51):

So, I would say if you really think that there’s a value there in what you’re doing and you want to dabble maybe to see if it’s something, then you have to have again the finances in place to see if you can hire and outsource the things that you don’t want to do. Where you focus on the passion and the fun and the creativity and you have other people to do the admin and the not so glamorous things.

Shannon Russell (12:14):

But you want to also make sure if that’s really something that you want to dive into. Because as much as you might want to stick with the creativity, you’re going to be as the creator, you’re going to be pulled back into that other non-fun stuff too.

Stephanie McCullough (12:25):

Right. Even just the bookkeeping or supervising the bookkeeper if you don’t do it yourself.

Shannon Russell (12:30):

Yeah. And you know what? It’s okay for it not to become a business. It’s one thing to work 24/7 or you know 40 hours a week on something. But to have that fun on the weekends or that creative outlet. So, that’s really a personal choice I think, on if you need that extra income, if you want to because you’re always going to wonder[Stephanie McCullough overcross:hm hm]. But it’s nice to have those options too.

Stephanie McCullough  (12:52)

So, we’re talking about kind of passion projects and crafty type or creative type outlets. But what about businesses that maybe aren’t the fun thing I like to do on the weekend, but I have a skill that I could offer to the world and maybe I could get paid for it. What kind of things do you see in that realm?

Shannon Russell (13:13)

Well actually I am not sure i mention this books Stephanie but I have client who came to me and she just turn 60 and she has gotten devorse and she felt like she spend her whole life helping her husband[Stephanie McCullough overcross: yup] and she had also been a cancer survivor, and she had a lot of different dietary issues[Stephanie McCullough overcross:hm hm]. So, she went to really learn about it because she had to be sugar-free, vegan, gluten-free, all the things.

Stephanie McCullough (13:38):

Wow.

Shannon Russell (13:39):

She started baking and cooking in that way. And so, she was baking cakes and cookies and desserts, and she started selling those to friends and family. And maybe a month or two ago she called to tell me that she got her cakes into local restaurants.

Shannon Russell (13:54):

[Stephanie McCullough overcross:wow]It started with one and it started going to others. And so, she created this business, and these cakes are the gluten-free, whatever you know, sugar free. And so, it’s giving options to these restaurants’ customers and it’s giving her a business and a passion and a need. And I just feel like that’s a good example to offer you that lights me up because she’s finding her creativity and her independence in her 60s, which is amazing.

Stephanie McCullough (14:21):

Right! But also, it came from a need and doing research and experimenting.

Shannon Russell (14:27):

And seeing she could help others you know, that’s you know what she really ultimately wanted to do.

Stephanie McCullough (14:32):

Right.

Kevin Gaines (14:33):

What I also found interesting was we’re not talking about a lifelong passion of hers. It was something more through a need than anything else, but it’s something she just kind of stumbled into and said, “Hey, why not?” [Stephanie McCullough overcross: Yeah]

Shannon Russell (14:49):

She paid attention to that right. And she listened and said, “Hmm, if I needed this, other people might.” [Stephanie McCullough overcross:hm hm]

Stephanie McCullough (14:56):

What about things like consulting or even tutoring or those kind of service-based things that you can’t really set up an Etsy shop for and you’re not creating something a beautiful piece of jewelry, but it’s still a valid service that there might be a demand for. How do you see people kind of thinking about those businesses?

Shannon Russell (15:19):

Yeah, so if it’s teaching someone how to play an instrument or tutoring, like you said, I have had clients start that just within their community. And it could be just posting in local parent Facebook groups or going to local schools or libraries and leaving business cards.

Shannon Russell (15:37):

So, very grassroots if you will, and organic. And then a lot of those type of businesses where you are teaching or consulting are word of mouth businesses, at least in the beginning[Stephanie McCullough overcross:hm hm]. And so, you could start at locally, say in person in your area, and then as you grow a little bit, you can figure out how to easily do that online.

Shannon Russell (15:56):

You can tutor online, you can teach music lessons, art lessons online, so you can see what the reception is in your area and figure out how many hours you want to really devote to that. And then if you can do more then you create that website and you take it to the next level and you can go online. But there’s really a lot of money to be offering those really specific services when you can reach and tap into that community. It’s a great point[Stephanie McCullough overcross:hm hm].

Kevin Gaines (16:26):

So, you work with a lot of people starting to think this stuff through and figuring out how to start up, what are the little things that people don’t think about? It’s like once they get going it’s like, “Oh, crud.”

Shannon Russell (16:40):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (16:41):

What are some of those issues that inadvertently crop up?

Shannon Russell (16:45):

Ohh honestly, I think the main thing and the main reason why I feel like I’m that accountability partner/reminder is that when you start something, it’s not going to be an overnight success no matter how good you are at it and how much you want it.

Shannon Russell (16:59):

So, to know that it’s going to take that year, 18 months before you really start seeing some money coming into your bank account. And I think that’s what a lot of new entrepreneurs aren’t expecting[Stephanie McCullough overcross:hm hm]. That ramp up phase. And that’s why we go back to really getting your financials in place and having that nest egg and seeing, okay, what can I do? How long will this take?

Shannon Russell (17:20):

So, it’s that mindset shift I think of, okay, this is going to be a long game and I have to keep working at it. And at the same time you’re wearing all the hats, you have to promote it because if you don’t, nobody else will. You have to get out there and ask for those referrals or testimonials.

Shannon Russell (17:37):

And I think that’s the hardest part is just knowing that it’s going to be long, knowing that you have to do it all until you can feel like you can financially bring people on to help you with those hard pieces. [Stephanie McCullough overcross: hm hm]

Shannon Russell (17:50):

On the flip side, I know there’s people who just find that money, whether they work a little bit longer, they save a little bit more to bring somebody on right in the beginning, which can help with the growth and relieve some of that stress because it’s those things that you might not be good at, like numbers or like the management. You can want a business, but you might not be that people person. So, maybe you’re the behind the scenes.

Shannon Russell (18:15):

So, really kind of having that mindset of going to take a while, who do I need to surround myself with? And just to keep that motivation going.

Stephanie McCullough (18:24):

So, you mentioned the financials and of course we’re going to have to dive in because we’re the financial planners[Stephanie McCullough overcross: Yes]. So, we often talk about like the runway right,like how many months are you gonna to have to float yourself before the business is bringing in enough revenue to cover expenses, to cover your living expenses, like? What’s that kind of bogey that you’re trying to get to? How do you work with your clients through like figuring those things out?

Shannon Russell (18:52):

Well, I should refer them to you because you guys definitely know more than me. But really I think it’s a matter of looking at are you the sole breadwinner in the family? Do you have someone else contributing? How much do you have saved? What are your monthly expenses? All of those basics, to be really honest with yourself about.

Shannon Russell (19:11):

Because I feel like, at least speaking for me, I don’t enjoy looking at my bank account. I don’t enjoy that aspect of my businesses. But when you can be honest and look, especially if you’re still working and you have some income coming in, you can plan your runway to see.

Shannon Russell (19:26):

But I would say, and I’d love to know your professional opinion, but I always say the least is eight months if not longer because at least in my experience, it was probably 18 months in my first business before I started really paying myself because everything was being invested or going to my employees [Stephanie McCullough overcross: right].

Shannon Russell (19:45):

And I did have spouse that was bringing in money as well. But yeah, it’s like all of those very personalized individual needs that we look at to really get someone to be realistic about it. Because you can have all these dreams that it’s going to happen, but look what happened with the pandemic or other things that happen and it just slows the world. Or all the layoffs that we’re experiencing now, which you just want to be prepared.

Stephanie McCullough (20:11):

Right. And even if you do have a partner in the household bringing in revenue, are they at risk of layoff for what happens if, I feel like that’s a lot of the things that Kevin and I do with our clients is let’s think about you know what could blow this thing up and how do we try to have things in place, or at least plans or ideas. Okay, if the worst happens, we’re going to pull money from here or you can downsize this expense or kind of have the fire drill thought out ahead of time and then hopefully you never need it.

Stephanie McCullough (20:40):

But if you’ve thought it out ahead of time when it hits, you’re like, “Oh right, I’m canceling cable, I’m downsizing my cell phone plan.” Like… Whatever the things are that you could do, you kind of at least have a little bit of a game plan.

Shannon Russell (20:54):

Yes. I would add too is thinking about what we kind of touched upon earlier is adding those extra streams of revenue. So, if you are starting, maybe think even before you launch the different ways that you could add something in.

Shannon Russell (21:08):

So maybe it offering, if you’re teaching music classes to kids, maybe you offer a special event for adults, or you do have this online aspect as well as in person, or you create a blog or a podcast or you know  there’s other ways to get that marketing and maybe revenue coming in a little quicker too.

Kevin Gaines (21:27):

You were touching on the point of understanding to cover your expenses while there may not be a whole lot of revenue coming in, but especially if you’re making a big jump, Like I’m quitting the job today and I’m just going to go a whole hog into this. It’s not just that paycheck, it’s the benefits you get from the job.

Kevin Gaines (21:46):

I mean we’re talking health insurance is a big one and things along those, life insurance and other benefits. Shannon, well how does that conversation go with people?

Shannon Russell (21:57):

That’s interesting. And I am maybe the black sheep in this scenario, but in television and now entrepreneurship, my husband and I have never had benefits through a company, which is crazy. I know.

Stephanie McCullough (22:10):

No, there’s a big chunk of the population that that’s true.

Shannon Russell (22:14):

Yeah. So, for us it’s just always been something that is the main priority you know. We’ve always just accounted for that. And so, I think it’s the same thing for other people who don’t know how much COBRA costs or Obamacare costs. It’s letting them know that this is going to be another avenue or can you get on your partner’s plan?

Shannon Russell (22:34):

Like..Can you figure out what you need? Do you need vision this year? You know.. Just that really looking through it and having them say, “Okay, well maybe I am not giving my notice for another six months. Maybe I need to have a separate account to really save for that.”

Shannon Russell (22:50):

And to kind of look at realistically, especially if you’ve started something on the side, you’re starting to see what’s coming in. And then you have to do that math of, “Okay, well if I’m full-time, how will that look compared to part-time? And then, how much do I realistically think I will be bringing in every month?”

Shannon Russell (23:10):

And really just doing that math of, okay it might be a year until I feel like I’m covering my current salary. It might be two years. So, just having that honest conversation to account for all those things. Like you said, life insurance, we don’t think because it just automatically comes out of our account or our Netflix, whatever it is. Netflix is not anything like life insurance. But you know-

Kevin Gaines (23:34):

I don’t know, I’ve talked to a couple people that would argue Netflix is more important, so-

Shannon Russell (23:40):

But yeah, it’s I guess, it goes down to that desire and that need too because if this is something you truly want, then you’re willing to get rid of Netflix, you’re willing to not eat out as much. And so, you just have to look at those pots of your finances and just really plan. And not everyone does, as you both know, not everyone wants to look at it and plan.

Shannon Russell (24:00):

So, it’s a word to the wise that it’s so important to take that time I think in the beginning. It’s going to make your success, your runway a lot smoother and more enjoyable.

Stephanie McCullough (24:11):

Well, and this comes to another point that you mentioned a lot, which I think is thinking ahead of time about the support system you can build around yourself to support you in this new venture. You haven’t necessarily been an entrepreneur before, so who are the kinds of people that you recommend people try to find to support them in their new chapter?

Shannon Russell (24:33):

Well, definitely a mentor. So, whether it’s someone maybe in your current job that knows what you want to pivot into or if you have a friend or someone that you maybe connect with on LinkedIn that’s already doing what you want to do, it’s great to have a conversation and say, “Would you mind if I just reach out to you and pick your brain about this as I move forward?”

Shannon Russell (24:54):

But of course, you can get a coach or a consultant or someone, an accountant, someone to help you with the parts that you really need to get a little bit clearer on. But regardless, I think especially if you’re making this jump and maybe your family or your spouse or your best friend aren’t so supportive or you’re afraid to tell them because you don’t want to hear what they’re going to say if maybe they are going to project their fear that they may have for this kind of move onto you.

Shannon Russell (25:21):

I say keep it close to your chest, do your research, do your planning yourself until you get that confidence where you’re like, “You know what, a thousand percent, this is what I’m meant to do now I’m going to project it to the world and whatever they say will bounce off my armor because I know I’m doing the right thing.” So, really just having, even if it’s just one person you can go to [Stephanie McCullough overcross: Yeah], who maybe is a few steps ahead of you that you can lean on for any kind of support.

Stephanie McCullough (25:50):

And I would add that there’s amazing women’s networking groups out there for business owners, right. I belong to FemCity. There’s tons of them. There’s local ones, there’s national ones, and they’ve got kind of that built in support network. At least the one that I belong to, right. Very supportive women, all kinds of areas of business that they’re in.

Stephanie McCullough (26:11):

And now you can go virtually to meetings all around the country and find those people or ask in their online group like, “Hey, I’m thinking of doing a franchise in this area. Anybody done that?” And like, “My friend Susan did that. Call her, she’s an Oregon or whatever.” That’s another way to find that support.

Stephanie McCullough (26:29):

And I think you’re right, having conversations with the people who’ve been there before might open up your eyes to some of the pitfalls that you might not have thought of or asking that, what do you wish you had known when you started, kind of question, I think can be really valuable.

Shannon Russell (26:45):

Oh yeah. And I think you’re right. Those online, I mean, the same thing. I’m in so many different groups. I’m in a mastermind with women who have become like greatest friends and it’s great. Even though we all have different businesses to be able to go and say, “What if you ever had this experience with a customer or a client, what did you do?” [Stephanie McCullough overcross: Yeah]

Shannon Russell (27:00):

And just knowing you’ve got someone who has your back and it’s amazing how close you can get with people virtually. Right Stephanie?

Stephanie McCullough (27:06):

Yes, completely.

Kevin Gaines (27:08):

And I think it’s important to mention that a lot of these groups you may think, I already have to have the business firmly fleshed out and up and running and everything. But a lot of these, a lot of the networking groups I belong with, people come in all the time, they’re learning almost.

Kevin Gaines (27:27):

And you’re going to make these connections with people who you can then find a mentor. Maybe not in that particular business that you’re going to do, but hey, a lot of people have to travel a similar path even though they’re selling something different or doing something different. What are some of the ways people can find these groups?

Shannon Russell (27:47):

I was actually going to suggest even as simple as Facebook or LinkedIn because you’re right, you can just go into a group and you can really absorb, you can learn, you can contribute when you’re ready. There’s lots of groups, either LinkedIn or Facebook that you can just join that are really so tailored to any different industry, like you said.

Shannon Russell (28:07):

And then you can just peek around and learn. Especially a lot of them will have resources that people post or just start commenting and having conversations on the side. And once, peek around there learn and then once you feel comfortable, that’s when you can start really asking the questions.

Shannon Russell (28:24):

But yeah, I think that’s just being a part. You already feel like you know the industry and you’re learning, and people are welcoming. Like. I’m sure both of you have had strangers reach out to you on whatever platform and ask if you can have a conversation and you’re like, sure. Because why not help someone?

Shannon Russell (28:41):

And it’s all karma right; someone helped us when we were starting out and we can help someone. And you’re just all like feeding into helping others grow and become better versions of their self. And it’s nice to see that community.

Stephanie McCullough (28:56):

Yeah. You did mention coaches and consultants and not casting aspersions to anyone here, but I have heard some stories about people spending giant sums of money with “famous coaches.” They really got nothing out of it, right.

Stephanie McCullough (29:11):

I’ve heard 10,000, $20,000 kind of down the tubes. So, they do a lot of due diligence, do a lot of research on that, try to talk to a lot of people and don’t get maybe caught up in a cult of personality around certain people. I would say in this area, a higher price tag doesn’t always mean higher value.

Stephanie McCullough (29:30):

And a really good person, a really open person like Shannon, she’s got a lot of free resources out there. She’s got her podcast, she’s out there doing things. Most people will have a free conversation with you and perhaps even give you references. So, do a lot of research before you make a big investment in that type of thing. And I think coaches are wonderful. I’ve worked with many coaches and I just want to say, especially on the entrepreneurship side.

Shannon Russell (29:53):

I agree. I have experience with that on both sides too. And that’s why I say like you can spend a lot of money and get this famous person to help you, but you’re not going to get the one-on-one. Whereas if you can find somebody who’s more person next door that you can relate to and will have those one-on-one conversations because a lot of times there’s programs like that where you pay and you’re just in a group scenario and you don’t have that individualized help.

Shannon Russell (30:20):

And I think that’s why I work one-on-one. Like, I just want to really know you and your business and your situation because it’s so different than everyone else’s. I wrote my book that’s coming out soon and that’s just another tool. It’s like everything I teach in this book for people who aren’t going to work with me, but they’re going to be able to get the resources and inspiration to help them in a book form, which is just another

Stephanie McCullough (30:43):

Shannon, tell us about your book and when it’s coming out and what it covers.

Shannon Russell (30:46):

Thanks. Yes. It’s called Start Your Second Act: How to Change Careers, Launch a Business, and Create Your Best Life. So, really everything we’ve been talking about, everything that I teach and coach on and it comes out May 7th, so very soon. I’m so excited.

Stephanie McCullough (31:00):

Congrats.

Shannon Russell (31:02):

Thank you. Yes, it’s my first book and it’s really about my career transition story, stories from clients, from celebrities, just I wanted to have those inspirational stories where someone can say, “Oh that person did it, I can do it too.”

Shannon Russell (31:15):

And then at the end of each chapter there’s questions and actionable worksheet style exercises that you can do. So, at the end you’re going to get something out of it, you’re going to get that inspiration or at least know what your next step is.

Stephanie McCullough (31:38):

Excellent. We’ll definitely have that linked in the show notes.

Shannon Russell (31:32):

Pre-orders are out now, so it’s been exciting. It’s at startyoursecondact.com and there’s a free Second Act journal you can download there as well that is a way to get your ideas down onto paper.

Stephanie McCullough (31:43):

Love it.

Kevin Gaines (31:44):

So, Shannon, I’m going to put you on the spot here because at least for me it’s putting me on the spot. I always hate this question. So, it’s your turn.

Kevin Gaines (31:52):

When you.. Now that you’ve started and you’ve got your business up and running and everything, what is the one thing you’re glad you did or you’ve got lucky that you happened to do and then the opposite is what’s the one thing you say, “Damn, I really should have done that differently,” or “I completely forgot about that.”

Shannon Russell (32:12):

Hmm okay.. So, I’ve had two businesses. The one thing I wish with my franchise business, my first one is that I hired earlier. I wish I hired earlier, and I wish I had a coach or a consultant. I did everything on my own, but I also was doing everything on my own.

Shannon Russell (32:30):

And then.. I was the one-man band and I wish I had hired earlier because I think I would’ve seen that revenue influx. I would’ve seen success maybe earlier than I did. So, that’s one thing I often say is like we mentioned briefly, is like, look at that, figure out who you can bring on so that you’re working on growing the business rather than, for me it was teaching classes to kids you know that wasn’t helping me grow the business.

Shannon Russell (32:53):

And I think that the thing I wasn’t expecting that was great about my coaching business is that it happened really organically and I listened to the signs. It was people coming up to me saying, can you help me? I see that you went from that to this. I need help myself.

Shannon Russell (33:07):

And I could have just helped one person and kind of let it go. But I said, “Well, you know what, I was alone when I made this transition. Let me help someone else.” And then it led to someone else and someone else. And then organically it was local people in my community that knew I had this successful franchise that knew I was starting to coach and they instantly wanted to work with me to help them with their business.

Shannon Russell (33:30):

So, I think that’s something I wasn’t expecting, but that I rode that wave. I wasn’t like, “No, no, no, I want to work with people all over the country.” I was like, “I’m getting business here. This is enough of a stepping stone and then I’m going to go broader.” So, I kind of didn’t take that for granted. I really appreciated the organic clients I was getting in the beginning.

Kevin Gaines (33:51):

What kept you from hiring earlier? Was that a conscious decision or just something you didn’t even think of doing?

Shannon Russell (33:58):

I didn’t think of doing, because it was my first business. I didn’t know. And I come from an industry where we had these large budgets for these big crews and so I didn’t know, I was very scared and nervous about the finances because I had left a very well paying career. I felt the pressure from my husband and my family and …

Shannon Russell (34:18):

So I just, I felt like every income was in my pocket where it wasn’t, it was in the business. Every time I would get a deal or a contract, I’d be like, “Yay.” And then I didn’t realize at first that that wasn’t going into our family account. That was going into the business.

Shannon Russell (34:34):

And guess what? I had franchise royalty fees, and I had sales tax and I had all these other expenses, so therefore I was working longer. But if I had brought on, I feel like I would’ve been able to move that momentum along a little faster. But I really just didn’t know, to answer your question, it took time. I was really just learning as I was, what is it, building the boat as I sailed.

Stephanie McCullough (35:00):

Right, right. Building the plane as you fly or whatever.

Shannon Russell (35:04):

Yes, yes.

Shannon Russell (35:06):

I think another big issue that people have or fear they face is that change in your identity. Because a lot of people think that their career, especially if you’ve had it for 20 plus years, is part of your identity [Stephanie McCullough overcross: Yeah] . And I think it’s important, again, that mindset shift of saying, “You know what, no, that is not part of me. I am a daughter, son, brother, neighbor, mom, dad, whatever it is.” You have so many titles that is just one.

Shannon Russell (35:34):

And guess what? You’re going to celebrate what you’ve done and what you’ve accomplished and take that with you. And that’s going to fuel your next act and fuel whatever business you are building. And now you’re going to add this new title, this new persona to your life resume if you will. And so, I think that’s important to not really grieve what you’re leaving, but know that gosh, you’re adding something new, and this is a great adventure on your career path.

Stephanie McCullough (35:59):

And I’m glad you brought that up because we probably need to acknowledge it as we’re making that shift, right. And if there are feelings that are cropping up, you’re like, “What is this?” Maybe it’s that I’m leaving this identity behind and there is some reluctance or some attachment to it for whatever reason. And just probably being a little gentle with yourself on that. And then like you said, realizing that,oh hmm— yes, celebrating transitioning to a new great thing.

Shannon Russell (36:30):

I was just going to add that you know, you’re still that same person. So, if you want to go back to that at any point you can. You still have the skills. No one is taking that away from you [Stephanie McCullough overcross: Yeah]. You’re just really adding on and it’s not worrying about what your friends on Facebook or whatever are thinking.

Shannon Russell (36:45):

It’s like, “Hey guys, you can stay where you are, but I have this desire to try something new and that’s what I’m going for. And how cool is that?” [Stephanie McCullough overcross: hm hm] And hopefully you’ll inspire other people to make that leap too.

Stephanie McCullough (36:57):

Right. And let’s just spend a moment acknowledging that even a business that doesn’t “succeed” and make the big time, it’s not a loss. It is still, I mean, I think there’s still benefits from it, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

Stephanie McCullough (37:10):

I remember years ago, a guy I went to high school with, he and his wife moved back to the area where we had grown up and she started a flower store, and it was really cool. And I tried to support them and then after a couple years it closed down. And I remember thinking, “Ohh! That’s so sad that her business (I was thinking), failed.”

Stephanie McCullough (37:28):

But they never treated it that way, right like. They kind of went on with their lives. And I was inspired by how that  like that was a chapter and they tried that out and it wasn’t for the long-term. Tell us how you think about “failure.”

Shannon Russell (37:44):

Yeah, I agree. I think that’s a chapter they’ll never regret not trying that flower shop and that’s really cool. But I think people do look at that. I’ve had people say to me just in the past eight, nine months since I’ve sold my franchise, that they might not know that I sold it successfully and the business is still going.

Shannon Russell (38:00):

And they’ll say, “How is everything since then?” And I’m like, “Everything’s great. I made a profit, it was awesome. I sold it when it was at the top,” and you know I’ve got my other business. So, it’s like, no, that was that chapter. I served the community and the families during that. And now I’m moving on to this.

Shannon Russell (38:16):

But I know what you’re saying. I had a client who left teaching, tried to build this business. We worked together. I could just tell that something that maybe there wasn’t that extra drive in there. Every time we would meet, there was something I was just keeping in the back of my head about her.

Shannon Russell (38:32):

And then around the holidays she let me know that she was going back into the classroom [Stephanie McCullough overcross: hm]. And I said, “You know what? That is the best decision for you and your family. And guess what? You can put that business on hold. You can pick it up in the summer when you’re off. You can start it whenever, but you know what you need for your family right now. And that’s the greatest thing.”

Shannon Russell (38:50):

And she’s doing amazing back where she needed to be. So, but she knew, she tried. I think that’s what– if you have that desire, try it. And like you said, it’s no failure. You gave it an attempt and maybe it just didn’t fit the way you thought it would and that’s okay.

Stephanie McCullough (39:06):

And you learned something from it. You certainly rounded out your experience, right now you can empathize with other business owners. You know what it takes to figure out a payment system. I don’t know, there’s a zillion different things you learn from going through that expertise.

Stephanie McCullough (39:21):

I love Danielle LaPorte. I have some of her quotes around my office, but one of hers is-

Shannon Russell (39:25):

I love her too.

Stephanie McCullough (39:26):

“Absolutely, everything is progress.” Right, like I just love every step. Even if it feels like maybe a backward step, it is progress.

Shannon Russell (39:34):

Right. It’s just moving. It’s just taking that step to get started. Yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (39:38):

Yeah. And all this has made easier if you have shored up your financial foundation, shored up your savings, right, thought through really with a fine tooth comb. Even if you don’t think it’s fun, your expenses and what you can adjust and all that.

Stephanie McCullough (39:53):

Shannon, one other thing before we let you go. I heard you say that it’s really important to get clear on your why before you do this. Tell us why that’s such an important thing.

Shannon Russell (40:00):

I think that your why guides you along that path. And for me leaving TV, it was my children. I wanted to be present. That was my why. So, any business I started was going to be rooted in that why. To know that I could be there to pick them up after school, to be there to be the class mom, whatever it was I wanted.

Shannon Russell (40:22):

And so, I knew to choose a business that was going to serve that why. And so, I think it’s looking at your non-negotiables and what is important to you. Because at this stage in the game for us, for anyone who’s had a career and is moving, you can be choosy. You’re going to choose what fits you.

Shannon Russell (40:41):

And that why as long as you make all of your decisions based on that, I think, that’s that almost that arrow that just takes you to success. And.. Because it’s easy to see that shiny object and go in one direction, but if it isn’t rooted in what you really want, you might find yourself in the same position, just in a different role and not happy again, so-

Stephanie McCullough (41:01):

Does it also help you through those tough times and those late nights and pulling your hair out and-

Shannon Russell (41:07):

I think so. Don’t you? Just going, “But I’m doing this for the kids,” or “I’m doing this for my retirement fund,” or “I’m doing this for that vacation home in Hawaii.” Whatever you’re working towards. I think it just, it’s that reminder [Stephanie McCullough overcross: hm hm].

Stephanie McCullough (41:21):

Yeah. Or “I’m doing this to be the captain of my own destiny.” Or “Because I didn’t get to be creative in my last career.” I think whatever it is for you, there’s no right or wrong, but I appreciate your focus on having that anchor or compass or NorthStar or whatever you might call it right really can help, because there will be difficult time.

Stephanie McCullough (41:41):

Shannon, thank you so much for being with us here today. We so appreciate all your insights and wisdom.

Shannon Russell (41:47):

Thank you so much, both of you. This was so much fun.

Stephanie McCullough (41:50):

Remind us where people can find you if they want to learn more.

Shannon Russell (41:53):

Yep. Startyoursecondact.com. That has my book, that has free resources, my podcast, all of that.

Stephanie McCullough (41:59):

Awesome. Thanks again.

Shannon Russell (42:01):

Thank you.

Kevin Gaines (42:42):

Thank you.

Kevin Gaines (42:07):

So, Stephanie, I’m glad we actually got Shannon on because since we’ve started this podcast, we’ve been having this little, what I call like a subseries or occasional series called Real Retirement Stories. And a lot of times the people we’re talking with have started a second job or really serious about a hobby and we hear their stories and things they think they did right and things they did wrong and how much they love it.

Kevin Gaines (42:37):

But to Shannon’s point, there’s a lot of things to think about before making that jump. So, I’m glad we actually covered that.

Stephanie McCullough (42:46):

Yeah. Sometimes this happens of necessity. She shared the story of the woman who had gotten divorced and needed to make some money. And I know a woman who works right nearby us. She had been laid off and then kind of hung out her own shingle and has now built a thriving business, but it’s taken quite a few years.

Stephanie McCullough (43:03):

So, there are different paths to being a business owner. Sometimes people are reluctant business owners. But what I appreciate about Shannon is really her suggestions to be methodical about it. And I love her phrase, learn before you leap.

Stephanie McCullough (43:20):

Really try to learn as much as possible about, number one, the area you want to go into. Are there other companies doing this? Are there other people doing it? Try to talk to them. Learn what you can learn about the market for what you’re trying to put out into the world. The pricing perhaps.

Stephanie McCullough (43:38):

But then also number two, just being a business owner in general. And the things you need to worry about. You need to set yourself up as a business. You need to have a bookkeeper or do them on your own. You need to have a payment system, like. All these different things that are going to be on you, all these different things that you’re going to need to think about.

Kevin Gaines (43:55):

But what I took away was the importance or the advantage of having somebody you can talk to specifically.

Kevin Gaines (44:07):

But the things come up in your process that you want to talk to somebody about, specific issues. And having that source, whether it’s online or physical person, it’s important to have somebody who can give you those, that advice.

Stephanie McCullough (44:27):

And then I do think there’s a lot of great books out there, right. Shannon’s book is coming out. But also, my friend Kerry Hannon, who’s an amazing journalist, she’s got a book called Never Too Old to Get Rich: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Starting a Business Mid-Life. She’s got a lot of great practical tips in there and we should definitely get Kerry on the podcast. So, there’s a lot of ways to get yourself up to speed.

Kevin Gaines (44:51):

But Stephanie, I want to defend spouses real fast.

Stephanie McCullough (44:54):

Defend spouses because we keep saying maybe the spouses aren’t supportive.

Kevin Gaines (44:56):

Exactly.

Stephanie McCullough (46:58):

Hypothetically.

Kevin Gaines (45:00):

Much like your mom and her love of sewing. My wife loves to cook. More than once, I’ve said, “Hey, have you ever thought about doing this professionally?” Whether opening a restaurant or maybe like a small-scale catering business or something of that ilk.

Kevin Gaines (45:21):

And I’d like to think to my wife’s credit as opposed to her just being too scared, but I legitimately think she knows herself to say that’s not something I would enjoy doing full-time all day every day [Stephanie McCullough overcross: Yeah]. But I just want to pat myself on the back and hopefully I don’t hurt my shoulder doing so. But I’ve been supportive of trying to encourage her to do that. So, yay me.

[Music Playing]

Stephanie McCullough (45:46):

Alright, listeners, we’ll give him that one. But we hope you found this useful. Thanks so much for being with us. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.

Kevin Gaines (45:55):

And it’s goodbye from her.

Stephanie McCullough (45:58):

Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends, show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only Raymond Loewy through New Math in New York. See you next time.

Voiceover (46:13):

Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group, LLC, a registered Investment Advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.