Take Back Retirement
Episode 53
She Did It! Real Divorce Stories with Monica Scudieri
Guest Name: Monica Scudieri
Visit Website: grabyourslice.com/book
Today, Stephanie and Kevin are joined by Monica Scudieri, who successfully navigated her way through a financially difficult divorce into retirement. Fifteen years ago, Monica divorced, acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, with two children to care for in a difficult job market. She quickly had to learn to manage her money, and to stretch her paychecks after a long period of not thinking about finances.
Monica soon came to understand that, to her, security meant not relying on a singular paycheck. Without consistent job security, she found adopting additional income provided her with the solace of knowing she could pay bills and provide for her family, even if her salary suddenly disappeared.
She cites the FIRE movement (Financial Independence, Retire Early) as a turning point in her approach to money management. She talks about overcoming the shame and guilt of struggling to provide, which is especially prevalent among women. Retirement is not on the top of the minds of younger people in the workforce, and it’s important to consider what your needs are and will be. Identifying what you want and need is essential to engaging with your motivation. Monica shares the moment in which she felt faith in her journey, which marked a turning point in her financial wellness.
Monica again emphasizes the value of secondary incomes, especially ones that are fulfilling to you. She herself has pursued real estate as a means of additional income, explaining that it’s something that is intellectually engaging for her, and fits within her lifestyle. She uses the pie as an analogy for building out streams of income: Everyone needs a primary source, or crust, that looks fairly similar across the board, but everyone’s filling is different, and dependent on their tastes, or interests.
Stephanie and Monica note the importance of identifying your financial priorities before breaking down what you need financially. Monica shares the initial inspiration for her book, Grab Your Slice of Financial Independence. In addition to her book, she offers individual consultations as a financial coach to help clients plan their financial futures, and shares anecdotes of moments where her work felt most meaningful.
Resources:
Please listen and share with your friends who are in the same situation!
Key Topics
- Introducing Monica Scudieri (00:51)
- Financially working through divorce (02:21)
- Persevering through financial difficulty (09:01)
- The FIRE movement (11:22)
- Overcoming shame and guilt (12:22)
- Building knowledge around retirement (13:59)
- Finding motivation (19:10)
- Identifying your turning point (22:03)
- Secondary incomes (26:09)
- Identifying financial priorities (33:10)
- The ideation of Grab Your Slice (34:09)
- Monica’s work as a financial coach (36:52)
- Recap (46:41)
00:06
Stephanie McCullough: Welcome to Take Back Retirement, the show for women 50 and better, facing a financial future on their own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, and along with my fellow financial planner, Kevin Gaines, we’re going to tackle the myths and mysteries of “Retirement,” so you can make wise decisions toward a sustainable financial future. Through conversations and interviews, you’ll get the information and motivation you need, to move forward with confidence. And we’ll be sure to have some fun along the way. We’re so glad you’re here. Let’s dive in. Coming to you semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial and American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.
00:50
Kevin Gaines: Hello, Kevin.
00:51
Stephanie: Our guest today is Monica Scudieri. I’m really excited to dig into Monica’s story because it brings together a bunch of the elements that we love to talk about here on Take Back Retirement. Number one, Monica has been through divorce and come out very successfully on the other side, after quite a journey and a lot of learning, which she actually now shares in a book that she’s put together and in coaching as a financial coach. Number two, Monica has recently retired. So, this is also a real retirement story. Her watershed moment was when she realized she had over $250,000 worth of debt. When she’s not writing or teaching financial independence, she’s spending time with friends, family, and kids while they still want her around. She’s a first-generation American Italian with dual citizenship for herself and her kids, which I think is fabulous. For most of her adult life, she’s had pets around, having adopted two rescue tabby cats and two rescue beagles. She loves meeting people and hearing their stories and believes we are more alike than different. And I think you’ll see why I feel like she is a kindred spirit to us. So, without further ado, let’s dive into our conversation with Monica Scudieri. Monica Scudieri, welcome to Take Back Retirement.
02:11
Monica Scudieri: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
02:13
Stephanie: We’re so excited. Congratulations on your book coming out. That’s really great.
02:17
Monica: Thank you. Yes, yes, I am excited about it. Thank you.
02:21
Stephanie: And you know, so we’ve been having a series on what women need to know about divorce. And mostly we’ve been interviewing people other than divorce lawyers because we want to give them the other, you know, perspective. But where you fit into this so well is that you went through a divorce of your own and you’ve written a book, you share your expertise on kind of what happens after, when the dust was settling, and you were assessing where you are and had to go forward. Could you share with us a little bit about how that started for you?
02:48
Monica: Yes, yeah. So, my divorce it was about 15 years ago now. And the kids were really young. So, they didn’t quite understand what was happening. Our son, at the time, was starting kindergarten, and our daughter was in preschool. And we explained to them that he was going to be moving out. But they were just kind of like, ‘Okay,’ and they just wanted to go play. So, we were lucky in the sense that we worked together to figure out how to separate things out. And once we could take it as far as we could, we didn’t have a lot. But when we went to a lawyer, and he basically mediated and fine-tuned it and made a few changes, suggestions, and then we kind of went from there. We live in North Carolina, and here there’s a 12-month period where you have to be separated before you can officially file and then ultimately get the divorce. And so, basically for us, once he moved out, we were divorced. And that’s when my financial education really started because I took on the debt of the marriage, which was $257,000 I had a temp job. I started—
03:59
Kevin: Excuse me, excuse me for a second. How did you get stuck with the debt?
04:03
Monica: Ah, yes. So, I got the debt because I kept the house. Our son is neurodivergent, he has been diagnosed with Asperger’s and ADHD and he needed the consistency of being home and some semblance of routine and so I kept the house, but with that came the debt of the marriage and the mortgage and all that stuff. So, the debt was half mortgage and then half other stuff. I mean, when we were married, we traveled, we went out to dinner, we threw parties, we had our fancy car, and all those things, you know, big house all those things that you think are the important things—which the travel was great. But at the end, you have all that debt. And then I ended up, my temp job ended, and it was really hard to find a job because when you’re a single parent and the kids are so young, you have before and after school care. So, I couldn’t find a job that was that had to be less than 30 minutes away from home. No overtime, no weekend work. It had to be a strict, eight to four, nine to five, something like that. I just had to be a little flexible. And it was just really hard to find something. In those first five years after getting the divorce, I ended up with unemployment for almost two years of those five, and then just temp jobs. And I find that a lot of times when people find that you’re a single parent, they know you’re into kind of a bind, and they take advantage a little bit and lowball you with contract jobs. I had one contract—I was paid something like $25 an hour. And then I got laid off. They called me a week later and wanted to know if I would take the job again. But I had to work Friday nights and some Saturdays, and they wanted to pay me $11 an hour for the same work. Because he knew there were no jobs. Where was I gonna go? He knew I had mouths to feed, a mortgage to pay.
06:09
Stephanie: And this was a bad time. Remind people when this was happening?
06:13
Monica: Yeah, this was this was 2008, 9, 10? And yeah, I’m sure we all remember those were some rough, rough years. So, it was just it was really hard. And in my downtime, I would spend a lot of time reading about how you create a budget, because I had tried in the past, and what I was doing wrong, which is why I hated it so much was that I was making up numbers of what I thought we were spending when it was based on nothing. And so, when I took a step back and actually sat and recorded it just without judgment, without and just record what you’re spending, no changes, no nothing. And that’s when it started to paint a picture of, oh, I’m not spending $200 on groceries, I’m spending $400 on groceries, or we’re going out or whatever. And so, then it just became a game of, where am I really getting joy from, spending $200 going out to eat with the kids? Is that bringing me any joy? Yeah, I don’t remember half the meals I ate. So, the answer is no. And so, it just became a game of, what did we do, that’s an activity for the kids that’s free? We canceled the cable, they never noticed, and things like that. And so really those first five years, because it was just really hard to find steady employment, a lot of it was just selling furniture out of the house, it was doing odd jobs for friends, cook for them, house sit, whatever I could do to add a little income to the unemployment check. But the kids, it’s funny, when I talked to them about that timeframe, they actually liked it, when I was unemployed, because I was volunteering at the school, we had more time together, we would expose them to other foods, we would play these games that we’d have to taste everything or I bring out like, I’d buy one type of each of the varieties of pears. And so, we’d have four pears on the table. And we’d play these games, which one do you like? Which one, don’t you like? Why do you like it? And we’d have these little fun conversations about it, which is given them this great, you know, repertoire of food and stuff. You make it work, but it was hard. I mean, there were some really hard times in there because every year since I don’t have consistent employment, my overall net worth every year when I’d calculate it would go down a little bit. And it’s very discouraging. It’s very, very discouraging, there was no light at the end of the tunnel for those first five years.
09:01
Stephanie: Although that’s one of the things that you talk about, right? People don’t talk enough about the hard stuff. And that you need something to help you keep going and get through it.
09:10
Monica: It’s true. Absolutely. And that’s the thing is that, you know, people don’t want to see because there’s a lot of shame and guilt. And I was already in my 40s when I started looking at my numbers, and I absolutely understand where the shame and guilt come from. I certainly had it myself. I mean, you’re an adult, why don’t you know how to do these things? And why is it such a mess? You start to beat yourself up. But the truth of the matter is that even though my parents were very good with money and stretching, my mother was like, I call her the financial magician, where she’d take $1 and turn it into $4 worth of food kind of thing. But it’s one of those things where we never really had those conversations. And so, it was just a lot of reading and learning and my mother would give me all kinds of recipes like she would you know, say ‘Oh, that’s one whole chicken, but I made three meals out of it,’ and she would tell me things like that. But yeah, we traded clothes with the neighbors for the kids. And yeah, it was just it was hard, and it’s hard to stay motivated. So, in the book, when I talk about that time, a lot of it was I focused on my why, and my why was to do better for the kids that we’re not going to be relying on a paycheck ever again. I want to do better for the kids. And every day was a decision, it really came down to every day was a decision, am I going to pack lunch? Am I going to buy lunch? Am I going to pick up dinner on the way home? Am I going to cook something? When there was a sale at the grocery store, I’d stock up and make meals for six to eight people and then break it up and freeze it. If we were going out on the weekends, we’d go to the bookstore and the kids would pull books off the shelves and they got a little older and got into reading, we’d go to the park. I mean, there’s all kinds of free stuff to do around town. So yeah, it just all it just became a game of where we could stretch dollars, and make it work, and still have some fun.
11:14
Kevin: You just made a comment about not wanting to rely on a paycheck. What do you mean by that?
11:22
Monica: So, my goal started to become because work was never solid. And even if you have a permanent job, it doesn’t mean that it’s going to be permanent. What I’ve learned from that time is that no matter if you have a permanent job a contract, that all jobs should be seen as temporary, and that you should always look to have money set aside to take time off if you need to. Or if you lose your job, that you’re still able to pay your bills, regardless of whether you have a job or not. And that just is something that I started once I started to understand how money works and how I was going to use my income, whatever income came in and stretch those dollars, that became really important, because I really didn’t learn about the FIRE movement until later on in the in my journey.
12:17
Stephanie: So, all right, you’re gonna have to tell us what, what the heck FIRE means. I think our audience probably doesn’t know.
12:22
Monica: Yeah, it’s an acronym for Financial Independence, Retire Early. And over the years, it’s kind of evolved into what that means. And so, it’s different for different people. For me, it means that I no longer have to work for a paycheck, I work if I find that work interesting, it’s something I can contribute to. But it’s not a requirement. And so, it’s really more about the financial independence, of living free from that to live the life that you want. And there are people that I’ve met who love their jobs, and they, they don’t want to quit, it’s wonderful, they have a great job and that’s fine, but they can leave if they want to. And not everybody can say that. And that was something that became very important because there’s nothing worse than being dependent on being you know, afraid every day that you’re going to be the one that’s going to be laid off with this terrible feeling.
13:19
Stephanie: And most Americans live that way. To get back to your shame and guilt thing, one of my whole soapboxes is, no one teaches us this stuff, right? So yes, we and especially women tend to beat ourselves up. I should know this. Nobody taught us that that’s a whole nother topic. Most people, we get into this kind of dependence on the paycheck. And we live in a consumer society, we spend, spend, spend, that’s the key to happiness. And we don’t get it an equivalent message on the other side of the importance of building up our resources and our assets to allow for that freedom and independence.
13:59
Monica: Right. And that there’s no direct line. Admittedly, when you’re in your 20s, and your 30s, retirement is not something anyone thinks about. So, for me, I try to think of it like this retirement isn’t something that you do in your 60s or 70s. Retirement is something you can do at any point, when you have the finances to support a lifestyle that you want, that is retirement because in truth, we are living longer and longer and longer. And so these are things that we have to think about that retirement could be something you do in your 30s where you work, and maybe you take a sabbatical for three or four months, and then you work some more and you have the income support all 12 months, and with vacation and all of that so that you can live the life you want, which is what it comes down to.
14:52
Stephanie: I love that. No matter whether you want to keep working or not, right, that’s what we’re all trying to do. And this money thing, it’s just a tool to try to help us do that. Take care of our people, take care of our needs, and live the life we want.
15:05
Monica: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And I do talk about money as a tool, budget as a tool. But the other tools we have, we have grit, we have perseverance, we have passion. These are all tools that get us through the times when things are not working out the way we planned. That is what it’s the expression that we make plans and God laughs, there was a lot of laughing in those early years for sure.
15:31
Stephanie: Not by you.
15:33
Monica: Not by me. But when I look back, it was a lot of learning. And it was a humble time. I often think that we don’t go through things, for no reason that we may not know it in the moment. But at some point, it’ll all come back around, it’ll all tie together. And so, writing this book, to me, in a lot of ways, is sharing with other women and other solo parents, that it’s that you’re not alone, you’re not alone. And this happens to millions of people all over the country and all over the world. And there is a way to get out of it. And women, I think need to hear that more than men, because women are the caregivers for their parents, their children, they’re the ones that don’t work as much, a lot of times they get paid less than their male counterparts still, even in this day and age, and even for the married women out there, a lot of times they just leave the finances to the men and don’t ever look. And it’s not about trusting or not trusting. But it’s important to educate yourself. None of us know when, when it’s our time, and if your husband handles everything, and you don’t know, the first thing about it, and God forbid, he goes into the hospital. What are you going to do? It’s just important to be educated and understand and lean in and not have one person make that all their responsibility to handle.
17:02
Stephanie: So how did you work through the shame and guilt to get to the education part, so many people I talked to, the numbers on the page are screaming at them and judging them, and therefore, they’re going to do something else, and they’ll deal with it next month. And, I mean, was it just a matter of necessity for you?
17:20
Monica: It was a matter of necessity because I had tried budgeting when we were married, and it just wasn’t coming together. But we were two incomes, so didn’t really feel like we had to, we could just spend, but when we were divorced, and I lost my job, then things got very real. And then you’ve got children, you’ve got three mouths to feed, things just got very real. It was necessity. And it’s when you’re ready. So, you should do it in your 30s you should do it in your 20s your 40s. It’s when you are mentally ready, because like you said, money is just a tool. That’s all it is. And so, when that necessity came, then I started learning how to budget every year, I fine-tuned my budget and kept the things that worked, refine the things that didn’t, and I’m an excel person. So, I love doing all the manual excel spreadsheets stuff. And yeah, and it just kind of grew into you know, and I have actually some worksheets that I have on the website that people can use if they’re interested. But yeah, I broke it up into my monthly spends in the different categories, where my cash investments, and I record that every month, and then I have a separate net worth calculation, I did that at the end of every year. And a lot of that, for me is psychological to see is money growing and my investing it properly. Where can I fine tune that? And how does it tie back to today? Do I buy those shoes not buy those shoes? And it really always comes back to that annual net worth ties to those monthly investments ties to your daily spending. And it always comes back to that. And yeah, it was definitely out of necessity.
19:10
Kevin: So, what inspired you, so you’ve gone through all of this? You’ve gotten your own personal ship on the right path that you’re comfortable with. When did you take that next step of saying, ‘I want to help other people? Let me write a book.’
19:30
Monica: It’s funny. I went to a conference in 2018. I had talked to other people in the FIRE movement, they all go to this. Well, one of the conferences they go to is this one called Fin Con in September. And it was my very first time and it felt like I came home, I mean, to talk to these other people who have been through other their own life story and sharing that and when I would share my story of how far I had come on my own, they all of them, unanimously, they would tell every time I tell the story, they would say, ‘You should write a book, this could inspire so many people.’ And at first, I thought, Who wants to hear about a single mom and the crying and the hardships and getting angry and losing your job, and who wants to hear all of that? But the more I thought about it, the more I thought, maybe this is something I can give it a shot. And honestly, it’s funny, because I never thought I’d had so much to say on the topic. But I journal a lot. And I keep, like I said, my excel spreadsheets. And so, looking back, how do I put this together, and then I quit my job back in March. And it really just went full force. And then so by September, it all just kind of came together. And it comes back to, we don’t know, sometimes when we go through something why, but I feel like this book is me why of going through all of that and sharing that journey. And that story of how things came to be because what’s most important here is that a lot of times we’re looking for that instant gratification that we need to be able to, we can’t fix it right now, what’s the point of trying, but in truth, very little happens with Instant gratification, very little things of value, those things are worth fighting for like that. So, things that are worth, that have true value. Those are the things that take time, you know, you don’t just plant it one day, and then it’s a big oak tree, it takes 50 years, it takes 60 years. And so, building your financial muscles, it takes time, some people longer, some people shorter. But that’s not the point. The point is that everybody has their own journey.
21:49
Stephanie: So, in your process in your journey of building those muscles, you mentioned those first few years, your net worth was actually going down, though, you were doing all the things and learning. When did you feel like it was turning around, and you had the faith that ‘Oh, this is gonna work, I’m gonna get there.’
22:03
Monica: I was looking at trying to sell my house and the market was not very good. And so, I had to hold on for like a couple of years really before I could get enough money out of the house to downsize. And in that time, I had talked to a few different realtors and one of the realtors, it turned out that her and her husband were looking at buying rental properties. And so, they started going into that and to tell sharing their story with me. And so, I started reading about rental properties. And is that something that makes sense for me because I had this time on my hands. And so, I did a lot of reading about it. And there were some opportunities here for me, locally. And when I finally was at the market turned around just enough, and there’s a lot of patience involved because, like I said, a couple of years before I was able to put it on the market with some semblance of good faith before I could sell it, and then we found another house cost less, and was able to downsize, which allowed me to put 50% down on that on the house. And then I was able to take out a home equity line of credit and use that as my cash. And from that I established an LLC. And then the following year, I bought my first rental property. It was exciting and nerve-wracking. It’s not for everybody. But I have a property manager that manages the properties. And so, I bought that first one I did, I did work with the bank. This is interesting, because I had tried to get a pre-approval with several institutions, but nobody would give me a pre-approval because I was a single parent, and I was on contract work and none of that was considered stable money, except for child support that was considered stable, which didn’t make sense because he was just as likely to lose a job even though he was permanent, but while they he agreed with me, the banker, but that’s just you know, that’s the criteria. And so, because I had a good relationship with the branch manager, he helped to grease those wheels a little bit and even though I did not fit the criteria, they took a chance on me and gave me a pre-approval to buy one rental property. And that is where things got started, so I downsized. I established the LLC, I bought my first property, I did my taxes, went back, they approved me for two rental properties. And so, I pre-approval shopped and then I got two more, did my taxes waited another year and was approved for another two and I ended up buying five now. These are all fixer-uppers. So, it took a little bit of time to get them to the point where all the big things were done. But it was really fun in a lot of ways education may be a little stressful at times. Because it’s a house and you know, things happen. Things always happen, you know, tree roots grow into pipes, and you have to have the people stay in a hotel for a couple of days or, you know, things. I mean, you know, all those stories. But you know, I’ve got nice people that live there now. And things are things work out and they’re respectful. And I, you know, I don’t charge, you know, crazy prices. I just tried to keep it so that, we all work, it’s good. One of the things I learned was to not have all your eggs in one basket, just to make sure you diversify. And so yeah, if the market is down, at least I have rental income. If I don’t have renters, and I’m not getting money there at least I have investments in the stock market and some cash and whatnot. And so, it’s good to have some diversity there just to cover you. On the chance that things don’t always come together.
26:02
Stephanie: Yeah, because something’s gonna blow up. We just don’t know which thing at which time.
26:09
Kevin: So, a non-sequitur for the topic of this particular episode. And this may have been get edited out, I understand. Property manager for people who are in the rental properties. What was your thought process of using property manager versus taking it all on yourself?
26:27
Monica: I do get that question. Why do I have a property manager and the truth of the matter is that I am a softie for people because I’ve been through my own stuff, I relate. Now, you hear the stories. But it does not make for good business, because you cannot make an exception for one person. And then not make the same exception for another person who doesn’t have the sob story. And so having somebody to manage the properties and set the rental prices, whether that’s fair, handle all the repairs, doing all the paperwork, all of that stuff just made more sense for me. But I’ve had people who they have 30 doors and manage it themselves and then hire an assistant to kind of help feel some stuff that they ultimately take on most of that responsibility. And I think it’s really where you are, I think when we talk, people think real estate, it’s all about toilets breaking and calls at two o’clock in the morning. But it’s so much more than that. I mean, there’s syndications, there’s REITs, you can rent a room out of your house. And you know, we live near a university. So, there’s a lot of different ways to be in real estate without being in real estate and having to deal with a broken toilet at two o’clock in the morning.
27:47
Stephanie: My friend’s sister lives in Los Angeles, and she’s even gotten into this deal where she rents out her backyard for parties. So, you know, for a few hours, four hours, six hours, and people rent because she’s got a lovely space with a nice garden and that she’s making some money on the side.
28:05
Monica: Yeah, no, that’s wonderful. I was reading about somebody who has a huge swimming pool, and they rent out their backyard, and they make some really good money doing that. And I just think there’s so many different ways that you can supplement your income. You could rent out your tools, you could rent out your car, you could rent a room out of your house, your backyard. I read someplace where people were renting out their backyard where they could put tents, put a tent up, and they could just camp in your backyard. I mean, ‘Oh, wow.’ Matter of fact, we went to the State Fair last week, and all of the homes that were nearby, they were renting out their front yard $20 a pop to park your car in front in their front yard? So, I mean, you know, if you have an interest, there’s a way.
28:55
Kevin: Yeah, because remember back in Baltimore, with the old stadium was right in a neighborhood and everybody who lived around it. They would just sit there and say, ‘10 bucks, park your car here.’ So, 81 games a year? Get a pickup, a couple cars, for a couple of dinners without having to do any work?
29:18
Stephanie: Yep. But I think you made a good point, right? Find what’s right for you What’s either interesting fits in with your lifestyle with what else you’ve got going on. And just because your neighbor or your cousin has rental properties, doesn’t mean you have to do rental properties. There are other ways, but I like your point about the diversification that’s really the key. We want to try to cover ourselves financially no matter what might happen.
29:42
Monica: And that’s the key to it right there. A lot of people, they’ll see my book and they’ll think I’m going to buy rental property investing in the stock market. And I’m very careful to say that this is my story. This is what worked for me. This is what I feel comfort. But my analogy is the pie and that you know, the crust is going to be the same no matter what our starting point is, no matter where we are, we all need to figure out our cash flow, or net worth, or credit history, and our credit score, those are your foundational pieces that you track and measure by, but that what you’re filling your pie filling looks like, is going to be different. You may be an apple pie person, and I may be a rhubarb person, you know, but it’s what’s right for you. And so, figuring out that feeling of what makes sense for your retirement, whatever that looks like. And it’s different for everybody. That is the key to it right there. And that’s a lot of what I talk about in the book is giving some exercise and some guidelines to figure out what is that what makes sense for you.
But I enjoy it and I do look to make it a game because sometimes, it can be a little I know a lot of people they see they think budgeting they’re like, oh my god, they already started stressing, but, you know, if you make it a game, and you make it fun, and just without judgment, and just this is me, this is all me. I’ve had people I work with, that they had one guy worked with three gym memberships, and I’m not a gym membership person. But for him, health is everything. And, you know, we’re like, Okay, so that’s important to you. But I’ve had other people, they’re like, ‘You know what? I do tattoos every month. That brings me joy.’ And so that’s what the point of a budget is, is that it’s not about going without, it’s about highlighting and lifting up the things that really are important to you. And making sure that there’s money for that, as well as thinking about down the road.
31:45
Stephanie: Totally, I gave a class years ago on living with a spending plan because we didn’t want to use the B word, budget. And one woman, I think she was a housekeeper, her most important thing was sending her grandson to baseball camp every year. That was like one of her biggest line items in her budget. And it brought her so much joy because her daughter couldn’t afford to do it for her grandson. And that’s awesome. Like, you tell me what’s most important. And then we’re going to figure out, right around that.
32:14
Monica: And that’s what I talked about. And that if you overspent in your groceries, but then it’s a little bit of, all right, so you go out to eat less, or maybe you don’t need to buy as many clothes or whatever it is, and you steal a little bit from other areas to cover that. Or maybe next month you reel that in, I mean, there’s just there’s so much flexibility that it doesn’t have to be rice and beans every single day and like a spoon of Tang, and so that’s, I think, where people kind of get hung up on budget.
32:44
Stephanie: So, Monica, it wouldn’t be fair if we don’t tell people that you also work as a financial coach. So, you have clients that you work with. Can you explain a little bit about what that looks like?
32:52
Monica: So yeah, the coaching is, it’s an ever-evolving process. I meet with people, a lot of times, it’s once a month, we do an initial talk for free just to see if I’m a fit for them, because not a fit for everybody. And then once we do that, then I have them start on the crust and put together their basics, so that they can start to get a sense of what they want. And then we’ll meet the first time and talk about what is important to them in this budget. Because when we talk about cash flow, a lot of my questions are around telling a story, what is your story, so you’re you tell me that it’s important to spend time with family and friends. But over here, I see you spending money on X, and is that really something that makes sense for you. And so, a lot of it is just asking them questions, it’s not about shame or guilt, but trying to understand what the story is, and how we can work the budget to make sure that it reflects what’s truly important. And so, a lot of the work is around that. Because I usually meet with people maybe like three times. And that is I find is like the sweet spot of when the light bulb goes off. And they have some goals, and they have an ad, they really understand how you can really use budgeting to your advantage and recording your spending and stuff. And you know, it’s and it’s I don’t I mean, like I love Excel, because I’m a nerd that way. But not everybody wants to do that. And so, there’s there are just I find, you know, you work the tool that makes sense for you. And so, you know, I like Personal Capital, too. That’s a great tool. So that’s really how I do my coaching. It’s a lot of it is just the short term. How do you stretch those dollars to plan for tomorrow, but have fun today?
34:40
Stephanie: Yeah, that’s always the balance and seems in our world and the financial planning, right, that today versus the future. Which is not always easy.
34:51
Kevin: And when we had these initial conversations, there is no right answer. That’s one of the things that a lot of times it’s hard for people to grasp. I need to say, I don’t want to say like, no, do what the heck you want.
35:05
Monica: And that is the biggest part of the conversation. It’s just people again, looking for that quick fix. And it’s there is no quick fix, like just tell me what I need an emergency fund. You know, Suze Orman, she talks about just put $1,000 and but I mean that that may be good for some people. But that is not the same for everybody. If you’re a single guy living in New York City, versus a married couple with two children in Ohio, or Idaho, I mean, it’s just you cannot compare. If you have temp work versus full time and it’s secure work, you can find it very quickly versus if I lose this job. It’s very niche maybe it’ll take me four months. I mean, like these are all things that have to be taken into consideration you own your home don’t and that’s what people need to really take a step back and understand because the more you know about what’s important to you, and you’re true to yourself and take that time, the more powerful you feel. Once that light bulb went on for me, I felt like I could climb mountains. And when I realized that I had enough money to, to quit my job, it took me a year to go, ‘Oh, my God, I could quit my job, I have enough money to cover my expenses, take a vacation or two.’ But I didn’t, I did not quit my job right away. I actually took some time. And then COVID came along, and then it took some more time. And you know, you know, but, but again, it’s like what you said, it’s a very personal, you know, and there is no right to it. It’s what’s right for you.
36:42
Stephanie: Yeah, no, I love that you say that. I think that that is my problem with a lot of the kind of talking head financial quote unquote, experts are they have necessity, they’re talking to millions of people. So, they kind of have to make it seems like it’s a one size fits all, but it’s not right. A lot of the things they teach are important, and they’re very good basis. And then you got to customize it to your own situation and values and everything.
37:04
Monica: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That’s 100% true, but that’s what makes so much fun, too, is that you are building that pie, that is going to be your favorite. And you could eat it every single day and be so happy. You know, and that’s the beauty of it, you know, but it also means that you got to do some homework and figure out what is your favorite. What do you want? How much effort are you going to put into it? Is this the time for it?
37:33
Stephanie: Yep, yep. Your point that data is power, right? And that, not only the data, but that clarity on your own. Why what’s most important to you, it makes all the other decisions a little easier.
37:46
Monica: I had a client once this was many years ago, we met at a coffee shop, and I had my initial conversation. And she was a single mother had a teenage daughter in high school. And we talked about—so she wanted to not borrow money from her family anymore to help pay for her daughter’s school closing, all the things that come with kids. She wanted to have all their debt paid off. There’s a lot of things that are very common for people. And so, when I told her, I said, ‘Okay, when we meet next month, I need you to bring what your spending is in categories for the whole month.’ And she got frustrated with me because she goes, I already know what I spend. And she took a napkin and wrote on the back rent, food, this, and that. And basically, she did it so that she knew it would add up to her paycheck. And I said, I said, ‘How do you know?’ She goes, ‘I’m only one person, and I pay for my daughter’s stuff. So, I know what I spent.’ I said, ‘Okay, I’ll tell you what, you bring your numbers next month, and just humor me, just record them. And just humor me next month. And if you’re right, if I’m gonna hold on to this piece of paper, if you’re right, I will buy you lunch. And it’ll be on me, but if you’re wrong, then I will not say I told you so. But you buy your own lunch.’ So, we met, and we sat there with our little cups of coffee. And she did not add up the numbers. But she did bring me, she only used the debit card. And we sat there, and I said, okay, so give me every line item. And we got to like I think it was like $150 she thought she was spending on dining out. And it was we were already at 250. And we hadn’t even finished another like 15 items, because it was a lot of like McDonald’s these quick things. Oh, yeah, it’s $2 here, $4 there, this that and next thing she was like, that’s when it was like the light bulb went on in her head. And that was the point for her that everything started to turn around. And now she’s working in real estate, and she owns her own home. And I mean, it’s wonderful. And it’s so rewarding to know that you know that you had a little piece in that, to just turn them around. And you know, and she did she figured out her why. And she leveraged all of her tools and made a very thick pie crust. And she’s doing phenomenal. And she’s amazing, she was amazing before now she’s even more amazing, you know?
40:20
Stephanie: Well, that’s the thing. I feel like our clients are all amazing, and they’re doing great things. And if we can help them get their financial foundation very stable and secure for now in the future, then that just frees up their time and energy to go do more amazing things.
40:33
Monica: We all have these setbacks. For me, it was going through the divorce and not finding work, and it was hard, you know, but everybody has them and think what separates those that do that those that do not have the ones that get up? You have to get up every single time. Otherwise, if you just lay there, well then, it’s always going to be you know, and so a lot of it is just getting up and saying all right, let’s do it again. And don’t let anything deter you. You keep hold on to that. Why? Hold on to that? Why? Because it will carry you through those hard times. I mean, it’s easy when everything’s good, everybody’s your friend, and everybody’s having a great time. But it’s the hard times that really make the difference of that strength really carries you through. Those are the key things, because it’s the stuff that people don’t talk about when you go through divorce. It’s just sometimes, or any kind of hardship, but I think that’s the key there. Is just those pieces to focus on and carry you. We’re stronger than we know, we really are. Actually, I just got my phase one of rebranding for the website. So, I’m excited about that. But yes, so by the end of the year, it’s gonna look totally different. And way better than my little 101 WordPress, trying over here.
41:53
Stephanie: Hey, it’s up there, right? All right.
41:56
Kevin: So, we’ve talked about your life. Impressive. We talked about your book. Impressive. So, for people who are duly impressed, how do they find you?
42:05
Monica: So, my book, Grab Your Slice of Financial Independence, can be found in a bookstore near you, you can also get it at the library, just order it. You can also go to my website, grabyourslice.com. And there’s been more information about me and upcoming projects, the audiobook will be out hopefully before Christmas, at some point in December. So that’s coming for those that like to listen.
42:30
Stephanie: Excellent. All right. Thanks, Monica, so much for being with us.
42:34
Monica: Thank you very much. It’s a lot of fun. A lot of fun. Thank you.
42:40
Kevin: All right. Well, I gotta say that was interesting. definitely gave me a lot to think about. Although the one thing I have to confess, I do not have to think about: Strawberry rhubarb pie, for the record.
42:50
Stephanie: I’m with you. Yeah. All the way. I like key lime. I like key lime a lot.
42:59
Kevin: I do love a key lime. But yeah, at the end of the day, yeah. Anyway, so do you take nothing else from this episode? You now know what type of pie everybody likes. But Stephanie, I think, and I went through this myself, the whole idea when Monica was talking about tracking your spending, and it’s going to be eye-opening. I did it for a month or two. And I remember, just like her, these numbers are not what I thought they were. And it’s not about what they are, oh, my gosh, you’re good. You’re bad. Because these are the numbers. It’s being honest with yourself, we always say we may lie to ourselves. But it’s not that we are lying. We just are wrong about the answer.
43:43
Stephanie: Right. And if you could do it, while setting aside that self-judgment, that’s the real key, to be able to then have the power to make better decisions, more aligned with your values.
43:55
Kevin: Yeah. So, what was probably your biggest takeaway?
44:00
Stephanie: This is a part she mentioned and about, she was talking about having all this happen in a bad economy. And you really had to have patience, right, you had to wait to sell our house. I think one of the themes that kind of came out whether we said it or not, was the there’s things you can control. And there’s things you can’t control. She’s talking about building her crust, you can control that, right? Knowing your spending, knowing your numbers, working on those things. And then the stuff you can’t control the markets, the outside world, the economy, you’re going to be in better position, you’re going to be in better shape to serve whatever comes at you from that outside world, if you’ve got your inside stuff in good shape.
44:40
Kevin: What’s the old saying? To thy self be true. That’s why we keep circling back on. It’s important. But I also found it interesting when she was talking about a couple of different times this came up retirement fire, she actually used the phrase, this is what it means to me. And you know, from conversations we have with clients, too many times people get hung up on what they think the word is opposed to me, or what other people say, ‘Oh, this is the way you do it,’ or something along those lines, I think it was really important that she’d identify to herself. This is what it means to me. If other people are going to bust my chops, that’s immaterial. It’s her life. She’s living it the way she’s defining it. And that’s a point. All these episodes that we’re trying to help people understand is, this is the basic information, but at the end of the day, it’s your path that you’re taking, work the way you want to, not the way you think you have to.
45:42
Stephanie: And I loved her take that, you know she got to the point where this stuff is fun. It’s empowering. It’s fun and exciting to be working towards her own. You know, personally defined goals, but also you know, that feeling of independence of freedom of making decisions of being able to spend on the stuff that’s most important to you. I love that reframing from like the drudgery of budgeting to know this stuff can actually be fun.
46:10
Kevin: Drudgery. I love it. Yeah. I love that. Because, you know, most people have that perception of this stuff. And yes, for some people, no matter how many ways you dress it up, it’s always going you know, it’s going to be dirty, but it doesn’t have to be this can be enlightening.
46:30
Stephanie: And empowering for sure. Well, we so appreciate your listening. Thanks so much for being with us. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.
46:40
Kevin: And it’s goodbye from her.
46:46
Stephanie: Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends, show notes and More information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only, Raymond Loewy through New Math in New York. See you next time.
47:00
Disclaimer: Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced in this material, are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice, or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor, prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.
