Stephanie McCullough (00:06):

Welcome to Take Back Retirement, the show for women 50 and better, facing a financial future on their own. I’m Stephanie McCullough, and along with my fellow financial planner, Kevin Gaines, we’re going to tackle the myths and mysteries of “retirement.” So, you can make wise decisions toward a sustainable financial future. Through conversations and interviews, you’ll get the information and motivation you need, to move forward with confidence. And we’ll be sure to have some fun along the way. We’re so glad you’re here. Let’s dive in.

Stephanie McCullough (00:40):

Coming to you, semi-live from the beautiful Westlakes Office Park in suburban Philadelphia, this is Stephanie McCullough and Kevin Gaines of Sofia Financial and American Financial Management Group. Say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Gaines (00:50):

Hello Kevin.

Stephanie McCullough (00:53):

Dear listeners, this is the day that I am second guessing my choice of co-host, because I have let Kevin talk me into doing a podcast about sports. Listeners, I am not a sports fan. I am married to a sports fan, my two children are giant sports fans, but aside from one particular college basketball team, I don’t really care about sports. More than that, I have to go on my little rant. As a female professional, I am sick to death of sports analogies. You go to a conference and every speaker is using sports analogies. They’re overused, they’re tired. And sometimes, they don’t even make sense to non-sports fans.

Stephanie McCullough (01:32):

I’m not saying women aren’t sports fans, right? There’s plenty of women I know who loves sports. My client Edith, is a huge Red Sox fan, shout out to Edith. My client, Susan loves ice hockey, shout out to Susan and Elizabeth loves to watch golf, she doesn’t play it, but she loves to watch it, shout out to Elizabeth. There are plenty of women who love sports. And, I still feel that the use of sports analogies in finance serves to reinforce this cultural assumption, that money is a man’s world.

Stephanie McCullough (01:57):

So, dear listeners, why on earth have I allowed my co-host to talk me into doing a podcast about a sports story? Because, it’s actually a money story, wrapped in a sports story. And we hope there’s some helpful and interesting lessons in there. But, in the end you’ll have to decide, so we’d love it if you would let us know. You could tweet us, @sofiafinancial and @AFMGplanning and let us know: Was Kevin right, or, was Kevin wrong? So, Kevin, what are we talking about today?

Kevin Gaines (02:25):

Well, spoiler alert, I am right.

Stephanie McCullough (02:29):

We shall see, that remains to be seen. Let the public vote.

Kevin Gaines (02:34):

So, we’re talking about, and I apologize to our listeners in New York City who might be fans of a particular National League baseball team. We’re talking about Bobby Bonilla Day, the date of some New York Mets fans that will live in infamy. Although, as we’re going to learn, it wasn’t that bad of a deal for the Mets. Anyway, Bobby Bonilla was a baseball player and he was playing for the New York Mets at the turn of the century. Gee, that makes us sound old. In 2000 and the Mets were tired of him on the team, they wanted to rejuvenate the team, make a push to get to the World Series. And they didn’t think Bobby Bonilla, despite being one of the best players in the game at the time, he wasn’t the guy to get them there. So, he had one year left on his contract and they wanted to free up that money to get more players.

Kevin Gaines (03:29):

So, they made him an offer, which is very common in baseball. They’re going to buy out the remaining part of his contract, the last year. But, in their case, the Mets wanted to hold on to that money. They didn’t want to give him the money today, because they wanted to use that money to get more players. So, they made him a deal, “Allow us to defer paying you this last year’s salary, and we’ll pay it to you sometime in the future.Let it grow at a certain rate, and it works out as a limited term annuity.” The actual details, it accrued for 10 years to growth. And then, after that, it would pay out over 25 years.

Stephanie McCullough (04:09):

So, instead of getting a lump sum and they owed him what? Just under $6 million for this one last year-

Kevin Gaines (04:15):

Just a hair under six, yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (04:16):

Right? So, instead of Bobby Bonilla getting $6 million in his pocket on that one day, he said, “I’ll wait 10 years. And then, starting in year 10, or year 11.”

Kevin Gaines (04:25):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (04:26):

“You’re going to pay me a certain amount every year for 25 years.”

Kevin Gaines (04:30):

Yes.

Stephanie McCullough (04:32):

Okay.

Kevin Gaines (04:32):

So, he was going to get actually, just a hair under 1.2 every year, starting in 2011-

Stephanie McCullough (04:37):

Million dollars.

Kevin Gaines (04:39):

Million dollars. Tried to Dr. Evil there. So, the total payout is going to work out to be just a hair under 30 million for him, over the lifetime of this contract. Which, sounds like a pretty good deal. Forego six million to get 30 million, yeah? Hey, nothing wrong with that. So, here’s the question. Why are we talking about some baseball contract? Well, there’s lots of reasons.

Stephanie McCullough (05:07):

To be clear, the reason it’s a Bobby Bonilla Day, right? It’s July 1st, is the day, every year when Bobby Bonilla gets his giant check. He literally gets a check in the mail for about-

Kevin Gaines (05:18):

Yes.

Stephanie McCullough (05:18):

$1.2 million every year for 25 years on July 1st. So, that’s why it gets talked about every year and the poor Mets fans either, yeah.

Kevin Gaines (05:27):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (05:27):

They feel they got the raw end of the deal, but that’s not necessarily true, as you said.

Kevin Gaines (05:31):

Right. For the reasons we’re going to get into, we’re going to say, okay, fine. The contract didn’t age well for the Mets.

Stephanie McCullough (05:38):

Okay.

Kevin Gaines (05:38):

But, at the time, there was plenty of reasons to think it was a fair deal.

Stephanie McCullough (05:43):

All right. So, we have a number of lessons that we have decided, apply to everyday people from this Bobby Bonilla baseball deal. So, Kevin, what’s the first most basic lesson from this situation?

Kevin Gaines (05:57):

As we listed these things, I said, lesson numero uno, understand your goals. And on this point, both sides win. The New York Mets, they wanted to get to the World Series. They wanted to free up the cash to invest in, to sign other free agents. And they did that and they went to the World Series that year.

Stephanie McCullough (06:21):

Uh-huh.

Kevin Gaines (06:23):

They achieved their goal.

Stephanie McCullough (06:24):

So, instead of paying the six million to Bobby, they used the six million on other players, and they got to the World Series.

Kevin Gaines (06:30):

Right. Sounds like it worked for them.

Stephanie McCullough (06:32):

Mm-hmm. What was Bobby’s goal?

Kevin Gaines (06:34):

Deferred income. I mean, he actually said he didn’t grow up with a whole lot of money and he wanted to make sure he had money for the future.

Stephanie McCullough (06:42):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Gaines (06:43):

Huh? I wonder if this ever sounds like something we talk about. So, to him, the idea of a deferred contract that would pay out over time, ala a pension, or annuity, or something like that, that was something he was looking for. He had a lot of cash at that time, so he didn’t need more immediate cash. He didn’t need more liquidity-

Stephanie McCullough (07:04):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (07:04):

But, having a safety net made a lot of sense to him.

Stephanie McCullough (07:09):

Knowing in the future, he was going to have these checks coming in.

Kevin Gaines (07:12):

So, they were both a win-win in this particular case. They both achieve their goals.

Stephanie McCullough (07:17):

Right. There were negotiations, right? Bobby had advisors and agents and they were talking about what they wanted out of the deal and Mets were advising. And this is the deal they settled on. So, what we’re saying, is upfront, both sides got what they wanted. And I think the other point that maybe, everyday people can take away from this, is whatever decision you’re looking at, knowing how it might fit in with the rest of what you have. You pointed out; Bobby had cash at the moment. He was just coming off his career as a Major League Baseball player. He had cash, but he didn’t necessarily have that assured long-term income. So, when we work with clients and look at their situation, people who’ve got a pension plan, or two pension plans, or an annuity contract, right? For them, future income might not be as attractive as cash today.

Kevin Gaines (08:03):

Right. Or, we have same conversation with Social Security.

Stephanie McCullough (08:06):

Yes.

Kevin Gaines (08:07):

If Social Security is going to be for argument’s sake, 50% of your retirement income. Then, taking that other retirement savings you have, and buying an annuity, may not make a whole lot of sense.

Stephanie McCullough (08:18):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (08:20):

Conversely, if Social Security is only going to be 10% of your expected income, then you might want to have a conversation about getting a little bit more guaranteed income somehow.

Stephanie McCullough (08:31):

Right.

Kevin Gaines (08:32):

But, all of these depend on knowing your goals, understanding your situation and making a plan.

Stephanie McCullough (08:37):

Yup, for sure. So, one of the factors that is a big issue with human nature and that we deal with all the time and that’s a lesson in this message, is deferred gratification. It’s hard to say, “No, thanks. Don’t give me that money today,” even though you might get more in the future. That’s a hard thing for humans.

Kevin Gaines (08:56):

Yeah, most of us are like Wimpy from Popeye, that will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. A lot of us want it now.

Stephanie McCullough (09:05):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Gaines (09:05):

And again, credit to Bobby Bo for understanding the situation and saying, “Yes, I do need to make some sacrifices to achieve my goals. So yes, I’m going to suck it up. I’m going to save.” Now in this case, I’m just deferring the income, but for the rest of us, yes, we’re going to put money into our 401k, or make the contributions into other retirement accounts, or some savings and give up that extra cup of coffee, or that-

Stephanie McCullough (09:34):

Extra trip, right? It could be a significant amount, yeah. And we do see this. If they do have a pension plan at work and they get to the point where they’re about to retire and they have a decision to make, or sometimes pension plans are closing and they would really like to get this lifetime income off of their future obligations. So, they offer a lump sum, instead of what sounds like a smaller number, every year for the rest of your life. “We’re going to give you this lump sum of money, which sounds like a big number.” Right? And the human brain’s bad at doing this math. It’s hard to say, “Oh no, thanks. I don’t want that giant check today. I want a dribble of income later.” Or Kevin, as you pointed out, lottery winners, right?

Kevin Gaines (10:17):

Absolutely, teasing a future episode. You win the lotto, you get some big payouts and giving up the headline number and you get roughly half of it as a lump sum. It’s like, “Well, I can invest all that money and I can earn more than I would get on the annuity” (which actually touches on a point later on in this episode) versus getting that steady stream of income. I’m just going to say, maybe you’d be different. I like to think I am, but how many stories do we see? Do a Google search. It won’t be hard to find. How many lottery winners end up bankrupt?

Stephanie McCullough (10:48):

Because, they take the lump sum today, yes.

Kevin Gaines (10:50):

And all of a sudden, it’s just all these one-off expenses that they just happen to find. And it happens to all of us.

Stephanie McCullough (10:57):

Absolutely, right? It’s human nature. So, sometimes the deferred gratification, even though it’s hard, is the way to go. Okay, the other thing you wanted to point out here Kevin is, again, something that’s not intuitive and not easy for our brains to get our heads around. But, this idea, of compounding interest. Explain how that fits in here.

Kevin Gaines (11:17):

So, as the deal was structured, they were basically taking this $6 million of the final year and they were going to grow it at 8% per year. So, that number adds up.

Stephanie McCullough (11:29):

That’s how they came up with a payment stream of 30 million.

Kevin Gaines (11:32):

Exactly.

Stephanie McCullough (11:33):

Because, it was going to grow.

Kevin Gaines (11:35):

So, over the life of 35 years, 6 million turns into $30 million, five-fold. And that’s only at 8%. Which, 8% doesn’t sound like a great spectacular number. Although truthfully, most of us check our savings account rates, 8% would be a God send-

Stephanie McCullough (11:53):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (11:55):

At this particular moment in time. But that’s where it is. Now, as an interesting aside, 8% comes in to play somewhere else for all of us, potentially.

Stephanie McCullough (12:09):

In retirement planning?

Kevin Gaines (12:09):

In retirement planning. Social Security, we talked on, I forget which episode number Social Security was. If you defer (here’s that word again, defer). If you defer your Social Security, from your time that you’re allowed to collect it, the full retirement age, whether it’s 66, 67 or somewhere in between, that money will grow. Social Security said, it’ll grow 8% per year.

Stephanie McCullough (12:32):

Until age 70.

Kevin Gaines (12:33):

Until age 70. And that’s maybe three, four years. But, if you look at your Social Security statement, you’re going to see that has a significant change to your monthly payment. So, just because the number sounds small on the surface, don’t necessarily dismiss it. I remember what Albert Einstein said, “The most powerful force in the universe is compounded interest.”

Stephanie McCullough (13:01):

Yup, yeah. And then, this ties into the next point, right? And you alluded to this. This risk-reward, trade off. You mentioned people who think, “I can take that lump sum and I can invest it and I can earn more than 8%,” or whatever it is we’re talking about. That’s the calculation that you’re making and that we’re making with our clients. When we’re looking at-

Kevin Gaines (13:24):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (13:26):

For example, again, the pension plan. Should you take that lump sum and control it on your own? Or, should you count on this entity to pay for you? To me, from Bobby’s perspective, this was a guaranteed return. He didn’t have to take any market risk. Yeah, he could have taken the six million and potentially invested the money. But, in the deal he struck, that risk of getting the 8% was on the Mets, not on Bobby. And really, he could have taken the six million and blown it, or he could’ve invested it poorly. He could’ve taken a flyer on a friend’s business that went bankrupt. Or, and he mentioned this in the interview that I heard, a lot of pro athletes end up bankrupt, right?

Kevin Gaines (14:11):

Yeah.

Stephanie McCullough (14:11):

Sometimes, through no fault of their own. There’s a lot of family members and hangers on who think, “Oh, he’s got tons of money. I’ll just ask him for this, that and the other.” And it’s hard to say no. That money might have all been frittered away. So, in this case it was a guaranteed income stream.

Kevin Gaines (14:27):

Yeah, it comes down to the old proverb, “Bird in the hand, worth two in the bush.”

Stephanie McCullough (14:31):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Gaines (14:32):

I want to give Bobby and his team credit, because think back to where we were at the beginning of 2000, this was the peak of the internet bubble.

Stephanie McCullough (14:42):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Gaines (14:44):

The stock market had just returned 30 or 40%, for the last couple years-

Stephanie McCullough (14:48):

The late ’90s.

Kevin Gaines (14:49):

Stocks were booming. You couldn’t possibly lose money investing in the stock market.

Stephanie McCullough (14:54):

Hah!

Kevin Gaines (14:54):

Compared to that, 8% was a paltry return.

Stephanie McCullough (14:58):

Hmm.

Kevin Gaines (14:59):

Yet again, getting back to one of our bigger themes, Bobby understood his goals and was willing to say, “Listen, I don’t need these huge returns. It’s much more of this safety net, than trying to earn every last extra penny I can.”

Stephanie McCullough (15:18):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (15:19):

Now, as it turned out, which very few people knew, or predicted, we were about to come into a really bad year, of 10 year returns that just, 2000, we see the market crash, it recovers. In 2008, it crashes again.

Stephanie McCullough (15:35):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (15:36):

Because, keep in mind, this started paying out in 2011. He actually was ahead of the game earning the 8%. Although again, nobody assumed that back when they did this deal.

Stephanie McCullough (15:47):

Right. One other point I want to make on the whole risk reward point, is that you have to look, right? And again, if you’re in Bobby’s situation, or if you’re the retiree looking at your pension options, you have to look at the quality of that entity who’s promising to pay you in the future, because yeah, it’s guaranteed, but it’s guaranteed by whom? And how stable are they? How likely are they going to be around, to make those payments? That’s an important thing to factor into the equation.

Kevin Gaines (16:14):

Hmm. And I wonder if that comes into play in this story anywhere. But, let’s push that point off for a moment and talk about historical returns. Again, we just touched on this also, if you looked at what the stock market had been doing in the ’90s, you’d say, “Nah, I’m going to continue to earn these great returns. I don’t want the 8%. I want the big money.” And conversely, the Mets looked at what they were earning on their money at the time and said, “We can afford this 8%, even with inflation and taxes and all this other stuff. We’ve got this other place where we could put this money away and earn a safe return.” We don’t have video cameras, so you can’t see the air quotes for “safe return.” But yeah, they were confident. And they were relying on their historical returns of this investment manager they were working with, first clue to where we’re headed and said, “Yeah, 8%? No brainer.”

Stephanie McCullough (17:17):

Because, they looked at their investments for the past number of years. And they’re like, “Oh my gosh, we’ve easily beaten 8%.” Right? And they fall into this trap, a lot of us fall into, looking at recent returns and projecting them forward and thinking, “That’s what’s most likely to happen in the future.”

Kevin Gaines (17:30):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (17:30):

But, as Kevin was hinting at, there was another complicating factor in the Mets story, because their money manager was-

Kevin Gaines (17:38):

The greatest money manager ever. The man never lost money. You would earn high single digits to low double digits every year, with no volatility. What could possibly go wrong, putting your money with Bernard Madoff? Unfortunate part of the story, is yeah, the Wilpons, who owned the New York Mets, actually, both of the owners were investing with Bernie Madoff and they were seeing these steady returns. So, they said, “Hey, yeah, we can do the 8%.” Not even counting for the extra revenue they would get from, hopefully going to the World Series with extra advertising revenue and attendance in the stadiums and everything. Even if none of that worked out, they figured this money was going to be safe.

Stephanie McCullough (18:28):

Oh, right? Because Bernie basically wasn’t investing, he had a guy in the next room typing up fake statements, showing returns. There was nothing behind it, as we all know, right?

Kevin Gaines (18:40):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (18:40):

And he went to jail and all of that.

Kevin Gaines (18:42):

Right. And the point here isn’t so much, “Ha ha ha, they picked a bad investment manager.” The point is, do your due diligence.

Stephanie McCullough (18:51):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Gaines (18:51):

A lot of people got taken in by Madoff. So, we’re not trying to single anybody out.

Stephanie McCullough (18:56):

Right.

Kevin Gaines (18:56):

But there were people all along saying, “We got some questions, that he’s refusing to answer. We’re not entirely sure this guy is on the up and up.” Would you, just regular Joe and Jane, investor off the street, be able to pick up on this stuff? Probably not. But you may have asked the question, “How do you earn 10% every year with no volatility?” In hindsight, it’s obvious.

Stephanie McCullough (19:27):

If it sounds too good to be true-

Kevin Gaines (19:28):

But, there you go, exactly.

Stephanie McCullough (19:30):

If it sounds too good to be true, it might just be.

Kevin Gaines (19:34):

Probably is.

Stephanie McCullough (19:35):

Yeah. So, doing your due diligence, asking the questions, right? You don’t have to have the answers, you have to ask the questions and have the guts to ask them. And if something feels weird, especially if you’re feeling pressured, take a beat, take a pause, consult with trusted people. And yeah, don’t jump in.

Kevin Gaines (19:52):

Because, as a result of Madoff, and not just because of the Bobby Bonilla money they put in, they put a lot more money with Madoff, they ended up starting selling the team pretty much as soon as the Madoff story happened. They sold a little portion to Steve Cohen, who was a big hedge fund manager. And eventually, he’s now 95% owner of the team, because they lost most of their money to Madoff.

Stephanie McCullough (20:12):

Hmm.

Kevin Gaines (20:13):

Which, we weren’t necessarily planning on talking about this, concentration and diversification. Not necessarily having all of your liquidity tied up in one spot with-

Stephanie McCullough (20:25):

One strategy, or one manager.

Kevin Gaines (20:28):

Little reserves.

Stephanie McCullough (20:28):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (20:30):

Yeah. So, it’s a lot of questions to ask.

Stephanie McCullough (20:33):

And it’s not always, because that person’s a fraud. It could be, just because that strategy goes through a time when it just doesn’t work, right? And you’re not-

Kevin Gaines (20:39):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (20:41):

Going to get those returns. So, diversification means always having to say, you’re sorry, you’re never going to be the hero, you’re never going to be the best performer, because you’ve spread your risk around.

Kevin Gaines (20:51):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (20:52):

So, the other lesson that I do want to mention, because it factors into things and it’s related to the compound interest, but it’s the one that works against us, and that’s inflation. The cost of living goes up over time. We’ve been living in a time period of quite low inflation for a while. And here we are recording in July, 2021. People are starting to talk about inflation now. So, is that going to happen in the future? But, even with low inflation, Bobby’s 1.2 million in 2010, is going to buy a heck of a lot more than his 1.2 million in 2035. So, again, back to the pension analogy, most pension plans don’t have an adjustment for inflation. Social Security does have an adjustment for cost of living, pensions do not. So, yes, it might sound great that you’re going to get a $1,000 a month starting at age 65. But, when you’re 95, that $1,000 a month, isn’t going to go very far. So, you want to have something invested, that will grow faster than inflation, so you can supplement and still pay your bills, no matter how long you’re around.

Kevin Gaines (21:54):

Which, is another reason we talk about, not having all of your money tied up in guaranteed income streams.

Stephanie McCullough (22:01):

Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (22:01):

It’s not just, you don’t have this cash cushion, or cash reserve to use if you want to spend on one-off things. But, in theory, investing is going to allow you to stay ahead of inflation and conversely, be able to offset some of the spending power that you’re losing with your pension, or your annuity, or your non-social security. And quite frankly, there’s even debate about Social Security cost of living, looking at the wrong inflation rate, that it actually is still underpricing-

Stephanie McCullough (22:33):

Right.

Kevin Gaines (22:34):

Or, undercompensating you, for the actual rate of inflation that you’re realizing.

Stephanie McCullough (22:38):

So, it might be going up, but maybe not enough to really keep up. Yeah.

Kevin Gaines (22:42):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (22:42):

So, as Kevin mentions all the time, there are different risks in retirement, or planning for retirement. It’s not just market risk. There’s other things that go on, inflation, longevity, right? All of the things. All right. What other last lessons do you have from our dear Bobby Bonilla?

Kevin Gaines (22:58):

Well, this may come across a little self-serving, but it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. The value of working with experts. Bobby-Bo, he knew what he wanted. He knew that this idea of guaranteed income was going to benefit what he wanted to achieve in the long run. But he didn’t necessarily know what rates they should be using, or how to structure the deal, be the most favorable-

Stephanie McCullough (23:25):

Because, he’s a baseball player.

Kevin Gaines (23:27):

He’s a baseball player, that’s not what he does. I’m a financial advisor, I’m not a mechanic. Plus, the way cars are nowadays, even if you wanted to be a backyard mechanic, it’s a lot harder to. So, when I need work on my car, I take it to my mechanic. It’s outside of my area of expertise. And we even use this phrase when deciding on, if you want to work with a professional, or do it yourself, we say, “Ask these three questions. Can I do it myself? Will I do it myself? And is it the best use of my time?”

Stephanie McCullough (24:02):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Gaines (24:03):

And the first two might be, “Yes, I can do it and I will do it, but you know what? I’ve got my career, I’ve got my family, I’ve got my hobbies. I just don’t want to do it.” And you could frankly, apply this to anything, not just financial professionals, but a little self-promotion never hurt, right?

Stephanie McCullough (24:22):

But, back to the Bernie Madoff plan, the due diligence. Yes. Yeah, we do believe working with professionals is a good idea. And to do your due diligence, right? Don’t blindly turn everything over to the person. You still want to be engaged, you still want to be bank sure that this person is listening to you and is really taking your goals into consideration, because Kevin and I have both been around in the industry long enough. There’s some people, they know what you need before you walk in the door. They’re not really listening. They kind of have their “set it and forget it.” And they have everyone on the same course. You want, in our opinion, customized help and advice.

Kevin Gaines (24:57):

Right. And getting back to due diligence, don’t get dazzled by titles, or letters after people’s names. Worst case scenario, there’s no guarantee of honesty, but there’s also no guarantee of competency. We could do a whole episode on that.

Stephanie McCullough (25:11):

Bernie Madoff was a fiduciary.

Kevin Gaines (25:13):

He was a fiduciary. He was president of the NASDAQ exchange for a year or two, which was part of the reason he was able to get away with it as long as he was, was he had this credibility-

Stephanie McCullough (25:26):

Cloak of credibility.

Kevin Gaines (25:28):

Cloak of credibility… Oh, good way to phrase it. That a lot of people were able to… They just said, “Okay, well, that sounds good.” Surely, he wouldn’t be a crook, or be doing anything illicit.

Stephanie McCullough (25:40):

All right. So, Kevin talked me into doing a story about sports, but when we think about it, Bobby had a financial decision to make that was going to affect his future. We all have decisions like this. They might just involve smaller numbers, right? Smaller dollar amounts, but there’s always going to be tradeoffs. The key is that you make an informed decision, knowing what you want to achieve, what you have to work with, and what the pros and cons are, how it fits in your whole picture.

Kevin Gaines (26:09):

Right.

Stephanie McCullough (26:09):

So, thank you for listening to our sports story.

Kevin Gaines (26:12):

I actually have one more story, just to give you a little more appreciation of how significant, or legendary might be a better way, or mythical, the Bobby Bonilla contract has evolved… Well, actually two stories, real quick. If you go on to LinkedIn and look up Dennis Gilbert, who was Bobby Bonilla’s agent. His little title descriptor on LinkedIn actually includes the phrase, “Architect of the legendary Bobby Bonilla contract.” So, somebody is really proud of how this turned out and it’s every July 1st you start seeing the stories and the gnashing of teeth by some.

Kevin Gaines (26:52):

But the other thing I wanted to point out, is Steve Cohen, who now owns the Mets, has actually tried to turn this into a marketing gimmick and embracing what has become this legendary conversation, is he actually wants Bobby Bonilla to come to the Met stadium and on July 1st, or I guess whatever home game they have on, or around July 1st and just present him one of those big game show checks, of the amount. It’s like, “Listen, we’re going to own it. We owe you the money. We might as well try to get a little positive spin on it, or something.” I don’t think Bonilla has agreed to it yet, but he might do it at some point. I think it would be amusing.

Stephanie McCullough (27:34):

All right. So, don’t forget if you’re on Twitter, please vote, @sofiafinancial and @AFMGplanning. Let us know if you think the sports story was a worthy story for the Take Back Retirement Podcast. In the meantime, thank you so much for being with us. We’ll talk to you next time. It’s goodbye from me.

Kevin Gaines (27:48):

And it’s goodbye from her.

Stephanie McCullough (27:52):

Be sure to subscribe to the show and please share it with your friends. Show notes and more information available at takebackretirement.com. Huge thanks for the original music by the one and only Raymond Loewy, through New Math in New York. See you next time.

Disclaimer (28:06):

Investment advice offered through Private Advisor Group LLC, a registered investment advisor. Private Advisor Group, American Financial Management Group, and Sofia Financial are separate entities. The opinions voiced this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual security. To determine which investments may be appropriate for you, consult your financial advisor prior to investing. This information is not intended to be substitute for individualized tax advice. Please consult your tax advisor regarding your specific situation.